Things not looking good for Tales studio

[Dimentionalist]

Financial issues. Is this why we won't be seeing Graces?

I blame this:

[Yetika]

Ouch, this kind of explains a bit. :/

[mikeyramone]

What does it say (my japanese sucks big time )?

I mean, not everthing, but what is the main message?

[DuskShark]

^

Oh! I see what you did there...but what's being milked(and for that matter, what is that page saying?)?

[throughhim413]

Were those just raw sales figures listed below?

Phantasia (SFC) 550,000
Destiny (PSX) 900,000
Eternia (PSX) 660,000
Destiny 2 (PS2) 760,000
Symphonia (GC) 320,000 (PS2) 400,000
Rebirth (PS2) 600,000
Legendia (PS2) 400,000
Abyss (PS2) 600,000

Tempest (DS) 200,000
Innocence (DS) 230,000
Symphonia: DotN (Wii) 220,000
Vesperia (360) 200,000
Hearts (DS) 250,000
Graces (Wii) 190,000

What the hell happened after Abyss? I sure hope all those ports are selling, but judging by those financial reports, I'm guessing they're hardly making a dent...

[Cless]

After seeing what happened with Radiant Mythology 2, Vesperia PS3, and VS, it became seemingly clear to me that much of the remaining fanbase has stubbornly kept its hardware loyalty in Sony's court.

There hasn't been a new, ground-up mainline for a Sony console since Abyss. And although I do expect that some of the original fanbase has given up the series, I could see a brand new mainline PS3 Tales still getting 400-500k lifetime sales.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

that, and i assume what happened after abyss is poor release timing (or was that not the case, in japan?), and a retardedly fast pace of releasing games.

i mean, what were they expecting? the market to continue to buy 500k+ of each of their games when they flood the market? and for that matter, where are all the other games' sales figures, like the escort titles that probably didn't cost as much, or the PSP ports that couldn't POSSIBLY have cost nearly as much and probably sold a decent amount?

regardless, it makes no sense for this to be the reason we're not getting tales games in the US. most of the development cost is to produce the original game, right? localizing it should cost relatively little, and should require relatively few sales to at least break even, right? they should be localizing like one game per year in the US to try to recoup costs. and Vesperia PS3 would be absolutely crazy not to localize when a large chunk of the localization is already done, assuming they were successfully able to navigate contractual issues and bring back all the old voice actors.

[Takel]

From what I understand, the Tales Studio has accumulated debts exceeding the assets of the studio itself. In other words, they are insolvent should the debts be called upon.

I'm a bit ignorant of the exact legalities and mechanics involved, but localisation issues to me are more of a hard-headed decision making problem than a financial matter as localisation, publishing and distribution rights can be sold and thus the cost does not have to be borne by Bandai Namco if they wish.

The main issue with that IMHO would be the prospective value of the franchise to a willing localiser/publisher. The franchise as a whole from my point of view has been woefully managed in the non-Japanese speaking world as evident in the rather low visibility of the franchise. I believe I've only seen an Aus copy of Tales of Vesperia in a bricks and mortar shop exactly once and once only over here whereas the universally panned FFXIII is sitting quite prominently in the 50% off bargain bin.

It's bloody frustrating since ToG has hooks all over the place screaming "I'm ready to be translated!". I mean, why on earth would you subtitle your own game in your own native language?!


And don't get me started with the PS3 version of ToV not getting localised. Do Bandai Namco honestly believe that the PS3 enhanced port of Eternal Sonata would attract any more sales than Tales of Vesperia? FFS, Eternal Sonata racked up 70k sales on the XBox360 in Japan; ToV racked up 160k sales; 71k of which were on the opening day AND caused a stock shortage in XBox360 units. The XBox360 release alone scored more sales than both the XBox and PS3 releases of Eternal Sonata. What kind of business case did they do to justify localising both versions in English but deny the same treatment for ToV? You cannot honestly tell me with a straight face that Eternal Sonata is any less 'Japanese' or less clichéd than Tales.

Oh yes, and let us not forget the milking that could be done via DLC costumes.

[Cless]

I so wish Namco would put Tales Studio and the Tales IP up for sale. And then have Atlus buy them.

[BassForever]

Namco really isn't doing much to help themselves on any front. I can't think of any of their titles that sell that well outside of their DBZ and Naruto titles and even those aren't big movers and shakers. The have good franchises like Katamari, Dead to Rights, and Soul Calibur but they've all grown stale and worse over the years. The thing is 200k would be good sales numbers for a niche series but Namco seems to think that Tales is a AAA franchise that can support tons of titles and it just isn't.

[Cyllya]

How does this affect Tales games that aren't made by Tales Studio? Other than preparing the "localization hooks," does Tales Studio have any role in localizing?

What the hell happened after Abyss? I sure hope all those ports are selling, but judging by those financial reports, I'm guessing they're hardly making a dent...

I guess the rate of Tales games releasing really is affecting how many people buy, since it seems to have started down hill after ToD2j and ToA seems like a lucky exception. (Actually, I remember hearing that they hoped ToA would sell 1 million copies, but I don't think any Tales has reached that unless you combine all versions of ToS or all versions of ToD.) Seemed kind of weird to me, since "main" games were only coming out slightly more frequently than once per year, and most people seem to snub the spinoffs on principle. Most of the time I hear people complaining about too many Tales games, it's right when they've announced a new main game, a new spin-off, and cheap PS1/2-to-PSP port at the same time. That's only too many games if you feel compelled to buy the cheap port.

[LJkAze]

Phantasia (SFC) 550,000
Destiny (PSX) 900,000
Eternia (PSX) 660,000
Destiny 2 (PS2) 760,000
Symphonia (GC) 320,000 (PS2) 400,000
Rebirth (PS2) 600,000
Legendia (PS2) 400,000
Abyss (PS2) 600,000

Tempest (DS) 200,000
Innocence (DS) 230,000
Symphonia: DotN (Wii) 220,000
Vesperia (360) 200,000
Hearts (DS) 250,000
Graces (Wii) 190,000

Is that sales in whole or just japan sales only?

I could see a brand new mainline PS3 Tales still getting 400-500k lifetime sales.

Now that Nintendo brought out a new hardware in 3DS I say why not port some tales game over or the very least RM1-2; I say Legendia and Tempest should deserve a second change and Tales Studio should remake them or Remake ToE ^_^; I wouldn't mind ToPndx either.

I so wish Namco would put Tales Studio and the Tales IP up for sale. And then have Atlus buy them.

That actually not a bad idea really; or tri-ace ^_^

[Kuwert]

or tri-ace ^_^

After seeing Valkyrie Profile's transition into 3D, I think a new tri-Ace Tales game would be pretty stunning.

[Datschge]

How does this affect Tales games that aren't made by Tales Studio?

Depends on whether they are more or less efficient than Tales Studio. I don't think Alfa System will stop contributing their entries. Others are too random to tell.

Other than preparing the "localization hooks," does Tales Studio have any role in localizing?

Usually official translations (i.e. the process of inputing the text into the game as well as making further adaptions where necessary) go through the developer.

Currently I think this info shows little more than common big company balance sheet manipulation: Tales Studio has no assets since as a wholly owned subsidiary it doesn't need any. Them making losses while they likely have no actual income outside of the financing by the parent company (i.e. Bandai Namco) just points to money being moved around within the company to make another part's balance sheet look less bad (maybe that of Namco Bandai Games Inc.). Bandai Namco needn't Tales Studio to make losses to close it or to sell them off, as the owner it could do just that at any time anyway.

What's more interesting is what was revealed over two months ago: Tales Studio now has 124 employees (in line with Bandai Namco's recent 10% workforce reduction, previous numbers are mid 2004: 117, April 1st 2006: 128, April 1st 2007: 132, April 1st 2009 135) and its board had been completely decimated (while earlier boards always had half a dozen directors from NBGI, it now only consists of a Namco producer as president and the two Tales Studio heads as directors).

[pesmerga00]

Them making losses while they likely have no actual income outside of the financing by the parent company (i.e. Bandai Namco) just points to money being moved around within the company to make another part's balance sheet look less bad (maybe that of Namco Bandai Games Inc.)

Ya, this seems more like the actual case. It would provide an excellent excuse to keep the game Japan exclusive while boosting loyalty from the Japanese and sympathy overseas.

I'm really not seeing any way they would lose money on this if they brought it over, especially if they just did a US port the Euros could import it. The game would sell decently at the very least on the PS3.

[pedrocasilva]

After seeing what happened with Radiant Mythology 2, Vesperia PS3, and VS, it became seemingly clear to me that much of the remaining fanbase has stubbornly kept its hardware loyalty in Sony's court.

Just like outside Japan it seems to still be tied to Nintendo platforms

That's only normal, it's like saying PS3 sold more Final Fantasy XIII than X360 did; of course, because main installments were tied to it for so long. And in Japan it really is like that.

The bottomline should be... Radiant Mythology 2 sold really well, Vs too, Vesperia PS3 kinda sidetracked Graces series because it was so close, but both sold well enough (yes, vesperia took the edge there) and all in all, the franchise sells enough. And would sell more if they just released the games overseas often, without the whole drama "is it coming or not?" involved for the fanbase, growing a userbase can't be a part time endeavour, and for Namco, it is, or was.

For them to be in debt like this... I blame Namco in more ways than one.