The problem with the series...not just a simple "ad" problem.

[Cless Aileron]

Okay, I'm going to have to say this.  You're not going to like hearing what I have to say but it's the one topic that bugs that I have to talk about it.  You're going to have a problem with what I say (after all, I'm on the record that I said the great Tales of the Abyss isn't all that great and my least favorite installment) and that it's not the case and that's probably coming from ones I don't know so well (and to be honest, I feel better with ones I'm familiar with like Cless, gogs, and Carn ripping the argument apart since I really think they know what they're talking about).  I'm going to talk from observation and attitude of others.  This isn't my opinion but more about observation and understanding (or at least trying to understand) what the heck is going on.

Get the popcorn.  This devil's advocate is long (and I do mean long).  Alright, here it goes.
---
So, I'm hearing the only problem or biggest problem is advertising.  I beg to differ.

I'll bring up Star Ocean and tri-ace in general.  Star Ocean is acknowledged as the sister series.  However, seeing the tri-ace group, I see that they don't really care about Tales since Star Ocean has a better battle system.  It's deeper, unlike this series, where it's shallow and a button masher.  Oh yeah, Tales of Phantasia for the SFC is the only one that matter since that was from people who would form tri-ace.  Namco just "stole" it from them and the series never became the same greatness as Star Ocean.

Bottom line:  Shallow battle system that pales to what tri-ace does.  Why should I care about this series when Star Ocean does what Tales doesn't?  Other JRPGs still stand out better than this series.  I think even ones into JRPGs think the Tales series is a joke.

Tri-ace out of the way, I've observed the RPG players out there and they are a group that's highly more vocal about originality than any other genre out there, not even shooters.  We're in a genre that's criticized for its unoriginality and Tales is the one in the forefront.  Pretty much, taking Tales of Vesperia, they'll talk about its unoriginality.  To bring one up, RPGFan's review makes a complete mention of the deja vu of the game, then they made an editorial later about how uninspired the series is, how the series is pretty much an EA Sports system, and the only innovating Tales game was the first one, Tales of Phantasia for the SFC (because the sequels are just rehashing the same idea).  Finally, when giving Fallout 3 the award for the RPG of the Year, mention that Tales of Vesperia is unoriginal, especially compared to Fallout 3.  Oh yeah, Dawn of the New World is shovelware, just like every other Wii RPG.  Pretty much, there's nothing that's a big deal about Tales and it's pretty much the icon of what's wrong with JRPGs (once again, I think even JRPG fans find the series to be a joke).  Now to put it out there, it's hard to deny that RPGs are now leaning towards the west, which I have to mention next (I mean, I did mention Fallout 3 was last year's big deal RPG).

I know Carn's not going to like hearing Fallout 3 praised so much but it's necessary for this discussion.

Why exactly are Western RPGs such a big deal? Well, they're not very cliche and actually are not reusing the same idea all the time, unlike JRPGs and their obsessions with anime tropes.  They play more like actual RPGs where you're building your characters, and they tend to give you choices for the story.  Fallout 3 managed to stand out with all that.  You're a character you build yourself, the post-nuclear apocalypse setting is more refreshing of a setting than other (you know, like JRPGs), and you get freedom of progression.  So what that it leads to the same ending, giving the freedom of choice is a good thing and more variety.  You think that certain settlement deserves to be blown to Kingdom Come?  Do it!  The game allows you that choice!  You don't get to do stuff like that in many JRPGs, nonetheless get to be bad!  As for taking the good path, they're tired of reformed villains.  They just want that villain to have a bullet in his head and the punishment coming to them, not some stuff about reforming.  Also, the story in WRPGs are seen better than anything JRPGs can pull off, i.e. better writing (Mass Effect).

After all that, you know what I would say the series' biggest problem is?  Standing out better!  Because its obsession with generic anime tropes, shallow systems, and subpar story with said anime trope is really going to get it to stand out (yes, the sarcasm).  Nothing to get hyped up about.  Even if the ad is as good as it gets, it'll come out as generic RPG #x because of what it has.  Pretty much, if they shed those aspect and portray themselves as being original, they'll have a reason to be excited, start hyping and have better promoting material.

Also, Namco is stupid because they're not releasing Tales games over.  Oh, because the mass really care about a generic RPG series that doesn't give them what they really want and is a mockery of the genre, Japanese or Western.  Even if they knew about the series, they can't care because it's nothing special.  While I'm at it, Capcom is also stupid because they won't release Tatsunoko Vs Capcom in English.  The licensing issue is just a cover up for the real reason...people can't give a damn about the Tatsunoko characters.  There's the group that's going to say, "Who cares!  Release the damn game!"  Oh yeah, because a successful crossover has one side that has characters most people can't care about, unlike Marvel.  After all, the mass really cares about Yatterman (though you're excused, Italy), Karas, Polymar, Tekkaman (the original), Hakushon Daimao, Ippatsuman, and Gold Lightan (Series mentions covers 8/11 of the Tatsunoko roster).  This is also why Namco was too stupid to release Namco X Capcom.  Because the Namco side has mostly characters people can't care and get nostalgic about (Tekken and Soul Calibur are pretty much the only thing they'll be able to care about...and they won't recognize Hori Taizo is actually Dig Dug).  Really, because they're all going to be successful after their appearance there.  Oh yeah, while you're crying about certain Tales game not in English, I'll say this right now...if it was Tales of Legendia stuck in Japan, you wouldn't even care because even the Tales fanbase hated that game.

That's pretty much my mean spirited rant.  Believe me, writing this out was harder for me than it is for you to hear this because I really had to go against a series I love to get a point across.  Who knows, the attitude described above is possible that also goes against the advertisement.

[Joseph]

I would just like to say that I hate Star Ocean.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

i'm not too convinced by this, really. the battle system is not well done? i guess i should really hold commenting until i actually play SO3 or SO4, but based off what i've seen/heard of those and my time with SO2, star ocean is in no way better done.

let's look at the runaway western favorite, final fantasy. what do they do well? great graphics, for one. starting with FFX, they also were trying to go for more deep, subtle characterization (read: motion capture, basically). FFXII's writing/localization also stands out due to its pseudo-medieval (or whatever) setting and care put into said setting. FF games certainly tend to go for a more western feel, with less chatty, anime-like characters. their plots are usually convoluted and cliche, though usually very well done. the battle system and whatnot is usually decent enough, but not anything spectacular.

now let's compare to tales. based on the above, what does FF do better than tales? essentially, better graphics with motion capture'd semi-realistic 3D models instead of anime-style models or sprites. (and also less chatty characters, i guess.) if you're saying that this is the reason FF is popular and tales is not (and rightfully so, you're saying), i think that speaks more about the shallowness of RPG fans than the quality of tales games. to call tales a mockery of the genre is kind of... odd, unless you mean that modern JRPGs in general are a mockery of RPGs.

for standing out better... that would be the battle system. that's what defines tales. again, i'm not qualified to make a definitive statement, but i really don't think star ocean overshadows tales in that regard.

-----

now, there are things that i feel are really annoying about tales games. but i don't think these things are that likely a cause for low sales. these things include:

- ludicrous sidequest time windows/backtracking requirements. for example, in vesperia, you go to aspio and visit rita's hut. there's a scene, and rita joins you. you get a chance to explore her place, etc. you then go to the shaikos ruins, then come back to the hut, again getting a chance to explore. you then leave the hut, and on your way out of aspio, rita joins you for good. at THIS point you must go back to the hut to get a scene -- no later, as the cutoff for the scene is before you have a valid reason to really come back. if you don't, you miss out on multiple pieces of a sidequest chain that leads to a great item at the end of the game. and what is the scene? it's just some generic scene that could really have been viewed at any time in the entire game without being out of place. what the *****, namco?
- typos/engrish/interface issues. seriously, namco, get a quality assurance guy on your team. and edit the script a bunch. vesperia is especially bad in this regard.
- scene skip.
- skits. Team Symphonia needs to get off their asses and stop using these dated portraits. it's doubly awkward when the portraits suddenly change into HUEG full-body images. for the localizations, if you're not going to dub them, at least change them so they're player controlled like normal text boxes. and in general, they need to stop pelting you with like 5 new skits all at once. hell, if needed, make LESS skits.
- awkward as all hell cutscenes. i'm looking at you, ehmead hill. it's not like they're totally incapable -- some are rather decent. i enjoyed most of the combat cutscenes, actually.

and, on a related note, the vesperia demo. you have got to be kidding me. why didn't they just NOT release a demo? it was absolutely terrible! you have a non-skippable, relatively boring, horribly orchestrated cutscene to start with. then you're thrown into a dungeon with no "inn", so to speak, with no explanation of the battle system mechanics. they just assume you know how to play -- even for the mechanics which are totally new to vesperia! they didn't even flash the control diagram onscreen for you -- you had to hit start on your own to see it. oh, and your default skill setups are horrid, too, and you have excessively advanced artes that lead to premature TP hemorrhaging (especially for rita). one thing that might have helped is having a "Tutorial" option in addition to the ehmead hill section, which you could go through before ehmead hill. it could be like, from sneaking into "mordio's" mansion to yuri getting arrested.

THIS point i feel may have led to lower sales. a good demo would have probably helped generate more interest. one like this... ugh.

[pedrocasilva]

I would just like to say that I hate Star Ocean.

I liked SO1 (SNES one) and SO2 (on PSX), I hated SO3 and SO4 appears to me as SO3.5+HD hence my hype for it is pretty much zero.

I also can't even conceive that their battle system is better in any way.

But don't let that detract from the OP's point.

[ForceCube]

I like Star Ocean, but all first three installments I have access to have at least a couple HUGE flaws that are enough reason to justify anyone's hate for them.

Anyway, I'll wait some more before I comment on what I think the "problem with the series" is. Maybe I don't even comment at all. For now, I'm more interested in just reading what others have to say.

[pesmerga00]

I see your point, and most of it is a matter of opinion. 

Well what "stands out" to me and I think most other long time Tales fans about the series IS the tried and true methods of the game that give you a "I know what to expect but its still gonna be a fun 60+ hours romp with a lot to discover" feel.

A game like Tales should NEVER change its format to stand out because its that exact format that makes the game so loved (and hated) by its current fanbase. They might as well create a different series. Namco does make/help make other RPGs for this reason I think...

Anyways, what it boils down to as gamers I think is that a lot of us really like that same old same old feel and our "anime tropes". Its a little bit of a nostalgic feeling but at the same time new fun and innovations with new games in the series. It may seem to be the same old driven plot on each game but for some reason I think there system works, at least for me and people like me.

And let me also state that the Star Ocean battle system, while a great one, can't hold a candle to Tales in my book.

I really like the newer 3D battle systems (Abyss,Vesperia) excluding Symphonia though, I hate Symphonia...  But all of the 2D Team Destiny PS2 battlesystems  are easily the pinnacle of RPG combat if you ask me. If they ever decide to add co-op to Star Ocean (not sure if the new 360 one has it or not?) that would be a step in the right direction but as it goes Tales is easily my preference.

[Datschge]

I consider this a preconception and perception issue. Tales (Studio) main games at this point are highly polished products sporting a lot of great game design decisions beyond the base game design most other games could learn from.

[Craymel]

Really? Star Ocean has the better battle system? I guess that's more of a subjective topic. I couldn't really stand so3's battle system for long. Especially with that near far special attack mechanic. I'm sorry you can only use this skill when your at this distance from the enemy. Really bugged me. How is star oceans stories not filled with anime cliché's? I'm seeing a lot of fan service story elements in so4 similar to what you'd get in a crappy harem anime with you're loli pops and you're busty women and childhood friends that could be something more... Oh and I also returned so3 because of the really bad voice acting. Seriously. That's my personal opinion. I thought I should bold that.

[Joseph]

Here's what "Tales" could use:

- Better cutscene animations.

- Less/shorter cutscenes.

- A more "open" approach to exploration/game progression. ("Vesperia" was awesome, but very linear.)

- Lenient sidequest requirements. (Although the Xbox's achievement system makes going back for those anal sidequests more rewarding.)

- More optional dungeons, maybe.

The battle system has been refined to perfection. "Tales" should take a page from "Dragon Quest" and not mess too much with that. Instead, they can focus on tweaking character development and abilities. "Vesperia" had an awesome ability system, but I can see room for improvement/elaboration in future games.

But, please, I do not want "Tales" to become "Star Ocean." 

[Cless Aileron]

Okay, it seems like if I do something that's going to sound controversial, I just sense they're going to be some cry of blasphemy here.  Once again, I underestimate the community.  It's nice that you're taking the topic so nicely (still would like to hear Cless and gogs' take on the topic on hand, though).

Though I figure I should add a few things to what has been brought up.  I'll start with the small stuff.

@demo.  Well, I actually hear some say that RPG demos are never good by also mentioning Eternal Sonata's demo being misleading (I wouldn't know, I skipped the demo and bought the game and...you know what happened afterwards).  Also, with a demo, I think we would be more worried about getting a taste of some aspect of the game plays in battle rather than giving everything it has.  Heck, the Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VIII demo doesn't let you go into the menu.  Also, I remember a demo disc I got with my PS1, it had a demo to a little Square action RPG called Brave Fencer Musashi.  One of the dungeon as part of the demo requires you to use a certain ability that lets you swipe an enemy's special ability.  I couldn't complete that part at the time but I don't know if I figured it out on my own in the demo or I learned it in the full game.  Either way, it didn't really matter, I got enough of a taste that I wanted to get the game (and considering a certain part of that time period, I actually got the game in a legit way, mainly because I was able to get a taste of Final Fantasy VIII).  Just what exactly do you expect from a demo?  The full game?

(Then again, if help comes in the form of what I tried from WWE Legends of Wrestling demo, where every few seconds, a help box comes up during gameplay, I rather just figure out how to play the demo on my own while I get childhood nostalgia of Hulk Hogan.  I mean, I figured out some mechanics of Tales of Vesperia that way.  Oh yeah, I didn't get help in that Riddick demo that was released recently either and had to rely on what I remembered from Escape from Butcher Bay.  And this is from non-RPG demos I'm referring to).

@animation.  I wouldn't call Eternal Sonata's animation superior to Tales of Vesperia either.  The animation was awkward and I have to say, Polka's posing was weird.  Her arms seems to always be out in the air all the time more like she was some sort of Barbie doll.

That out of the way, there's some aspect I want to get further on:

Well what "stands out" to me and I think most other long time Tales fans about the series IS the tried and true methods of the game that give you a "I know what to expect but its still gonna be a fun 60+ hours romp with a lot to discover" feel.

A game like Tales should NEVER change its format to stand out because its that exact format that makes the game so loved (and hated) by its current fanbase. They might as well create a different series. Namco does make/help make other RPGs for this reason I think...

Well, Final Fantasy 4-9 stuck with the same Active Time Battle system for so long and they finally changed with FFX (and honestly, I have realized I didn't give the game a fair chance and want to replay it someday).  However, FFXII caused some conflict.  FF changed and felt was needed.  Put more western influence into the game (MMO feel, more political story, and dropped the anime tropes).  It worked out and for me, Square Enix is still competent (let's forget Last Remnant for now).  However, those fans wanted a rehash and they complain this isn't Final Fantasy.  They were better off to not appease them and let them evolve Final Fantasy.

It's more about maybe, some series really needs to evolve and can't let the fans get in the way this time.

Well, I should bring up a certain Capcom series for this example, especially since a new installment is being released in the U.S. this Friday and a huge example of ignoring the fans for the better.  Before Resident Evil 4, RE had a set style.  Tank controls, fixed camera angle, high item management and you can't exactly fire at the head on a regular basis.  Resident Evil 4 ended up so different from the other that long time Resident Evil fans complained that it's no longer survival horror and too much emphasis on action and wanted it to play like the older installments.  Should they have really appease them?  Well, considering Resident Evil 4 got many Game of the Year awards in 2005 (which, with Resident Evil, was unthinkable) and actually made Resident Evil relevant again, Capcom was certainly better off not appeasing the long time fan in the name of letting RE evolve.  It worked and there's plenty of anticipation for RE5 due to that (including if it can live up to franchise changing RE4).

Anyways, what it boils down to as gamers I think is that a lot of us really like that same old same old feel and our "anime tropes". Its a little bit of a nostalgic feeling but at the same time new fun and innovations with new games in the series. It may seem to be the same old driven plot on each game but for some reason I think there system works, at least for me and people like me.

Well, here's the thing.  It may be able to hang on for some time but it's not going to hang on forever (especially since there's the complaint about a new main Tales a year, which furthers the problem being brought up and a need for them to slow down).  The complaint is that it's very cookie cutter about the series (copy/paste the battle system, plot, do a little messing around here and there, and there, a new installment for next year).

Then there's...a certain (not exclusive to anime) trope that's a huge problem.  We're actually stepping into pseudo-political issue talking about this trope and it's the most cliche one out there.  First of all, disregard what you know about me for now (and I'm not in the mood to disable my current avatar right now) because this is a complaint, not from me, but from many other fans out there.  How does Princess Peach avoid the complaint so much I'll never know because the trope I'm talking about is:

The damsel in distress.

There's plenty of them and enough to cause a complaint because the complaint is that it's degrading in general, not just to females, and really, we shouldn't like or even tolerate a character like that.  And the head count is at four:
*Mint Adnade (See, I told you to disregard what you know about me for now!  Then again, the point is to get an understanding of the attitude I see out there.  Besides, not counting me, who actually likes this character?)
*Colette Brunel (Ah yeah, she got plenty of this.  Kidnapped twice/thrice depending if Colette is Lloyd's soulmate.)
*Estelle (Come on, even the Japanese promo videos hinted on this one...I think the clip was even in Bonnie Pink's music video).
*Shirley Fennes (Guiltiest one of them all.  If she's not being a selfish girl, she's getting kidnapped...again!  If there's 10-20 people out there that actually likes Shirley, then that means I have a chance at winning an EVO tournament.  In other words, it's a ridiculous thing for me to think about actually happening.)

Yeah, this series has a problem using the biggest cliche in the book.  To put this way, there are tropes that many feels need to be ditched and this is one of them.  Now, let's get back to worshipping tough girls like Tear Grants.  At least they're not degrading!

And let me also state that the Star Ocean battle system, while a great one, can't hold a candle to Tales in my book.

I really like the newer 3D battle systems (Abyss,Vesperia) excluding Symphonia though, I hate Symphonia...  But all of the 2D Team Destiny PS2 battlesystems  are easily the pinnacle of RPG combat if you ask me. If they ever decide to add co-op to Star Ocean (not sure if the new 360 one has it or not?) that would be a step in the right direction but as it goes Tales is easily my preference.

Sorry you're the one I'm quoting for rebuttal since I just find your quoting sets up counterpoints I can think of.

Now for my "Star Ocean > Tales" comments.  Well, I hear that Star Ocean has a deeper battle system, more strategistic and it's not a button masher like the Tales series' battle system is...oh yeah, and tri-ace is god-like.  Tales of Symphonia was more like a filler game until Star Ocean 3 the following month (One FAQ I read even mentioned at the end in some way, "Game's done, now go get Star Ocean 3).  Yeah, I hear Star Ocean as a much superior game than Tales.  I even remember on another forum I was on (non-Tales) before I joined here in 2003 where I mention how addicted I was to the PS1 Tales of Destiny when I first played it.  Someone recommended Star Ocean 2 to me, saying you have more freedom in the battle system and isn't as repetitive as Tales of Destiny (Psst, I played both Tales of Destiny PS1 and Star Ocean 2 both in 1999...I didn't care that much about Star Ocean 2.  I don't think I ever mentioned that, even back on that forum).

However, I'll like to hear in depth explanation on the idea that the battle system for Tales is greater than Star Ocean's battle system.  I remember hearing Cless talked passionately about Star Ocean 2 but hated Star Ocean 3 (but I'm not sure about now, but it sounds more like Cless has mixed feeling about Star Ocean 3 these days.  If he decides to reply to this topic about his take on the topic in hand, this is something I'd love for him to elaborate on since I'm in the dark right now).

P.S.  Star Ocean doesn't have co-op...ever.  While I'll throw my own comments about Tales' multiplayer, it seems too much of a big deal that it became too important and I'll let it be (Tales of Legendia, anyone?).

(Wow, this post is longer than I expected).

[Shawn]

I really need to finish the second part of that article I was working on (having to do w/ the series's online presence)...

You guys have some valid points, though.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

Just what exactly do you expect from a demo?  The full game?

no, but it should give a nice feel of the game. an awkward cutscene followed by the player being thrown into battle without explanation of how it works is not a good way to do this. the only people who are likely to really enjoy the game this way rather than thinking "oh man battle is just a button masher" are series veterans, who don't need to be convinced into buying the game anyway!

for example, the mirror's edge demo. it was pretty simple and short, but i think i got a great feel for the game and how stuff works. left 4 dead? probably a bit more extensive of a demo, but i certainly got a good feel for the game from it. in fact, i think most demos i played were good, other than vesperia, eternal sonata included. (i hear the actual game is much much worse, in fact... why couldn't vesperia have done this by making the demo be ABOVE the average quality of the game instead of BELOW? way to sell your product short, namco.)

Put more western influence into the game (MMO feel, more political story, and dropped the anime tropes).

FF already had a moderately western feel to it. FFX was probably a departure from this somewhat, as it was based on like, okinawa, or the philippines, or something.

also major lol at dropping the anime tropes. at first, yes, but it pretty much devolves into anime trope BS by the end. not to say that it wasn't well done (it was spectacularly well done imo), but it certainly didn't make a concerted effort to stay away from those tropes all game.

in terms of tales, yuri, for example, is generally speaking a large departure away from anime trope clicheness.

It's more about maybe, some series really needs to evolve and can't let the fans get in the way this time.

i'm not sure the series isn't already. vesperia mostly managed to avoid "hai guyz ret's saving za warudo!!" until near the end of part 2 (similar in some regards to FFXII?).

what else should really be evolving radically? a switch over to a more realistic art style like FF? less dialogue/skits? an attempt at MMO-ism like FFXII? (not that this wouldn't be welcome)

The damsel in distress.

should we switch over to young lad in distress? or just avoid this entirely? FF certainly makes use of it all the time, and i don't see anyone raving less about it as a result.

also, i don't think mint really counts... you pretty much save her once at the start of the game, and that's it. hell, not twenty minutes later, mint drags/piggybacks(?) your unconscious ass around the forest!

Well, I hear that Star Ocean has a deeper battle system, more strategistic and it's not a button masher like the Tales series' battle system is...oh yeah, and tri-ace is god-like.

from who? this certainly indicates that there IS a problem, but it doesn't indicate that the tales game designers are the source of the problem.

However, I'll like to hear in depth explanation on the idea that the battle system for Tales is greater than Star Ocean's battle system.

there are probably other angles that this could be argued from, but here are some of mine. it's hard to coherently argue which system is better overall, so i like to point out the little things. things like short/long being stupid (but star ocean sticking to it anyway, even though tales kicked it to the curb with the second game), or you having like 3492974 usable items but a tiny-ass in-battle item window with which to view them. or the idiotic skill button assignments which get seemingly worse in each game. or the horrific targeting system. all these things speak volumes about how much crack tri-ace is smoking. nothing is logical about this stuff, especially when you consider how the sister series handles these things (or in some cases, how the ORIGINAL MOTHER GAME, ToP SFC, handled these things).

furthermore, the way they DO decide to rip off of certain tales features is very telling. like how apparently they decided it would be a GREAT idea to have it so you CAN defend after all... by standing around doing nothing. good job, tri-ace (ripoff fail). or how they decided to let you have a 3-hit normal attack combo, now. or how using spells in a chain will lolz improve casting time. hilariously, even BLINDSIDE was sort-of preempted by vesperia, though in that case it was likely by chance rather than a blatant ripoff, and it's a little-known mechanic in vesperia anyway.

[Joseph]

*Colette Brunel (Ah yeah, she got plenty of this.  Kidnapped twice/thrice depending if Colette is Lloyd's soulmate.)
*Estelle (Come on, even the Japanese promo videos hinted on this one...I think the clip was even in Bonnie Pink's music video).

Yeah, this series has a problem using the biggest cliche in the book.  To put this way, there are tropes that many feels need to be ditched and this is one of them.  Now, let's get back to worshipping tough girls like Tear Grants.  At least they're not degrading!

I think you subverted your own point. Both Tales of Symphonia and Tales of Vesperia have "tough" chicks like Sheena, Presea, Rita and Judith. Colette is also far from being a damsel in distress, especially once her angel abilities develop. Not to mention that Phantasia had Suzu to round out the cast.

For the most part, Tales is pretty progressive in this regard.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

erm oops, one more thing i forgot to mention -- they should REALLY pursue using subtitles instead of dialogue boxes. not necessarily all the time like in FFX/FFXII, but at least for cutscenes. i believe ToS DotNW does it this way, and it's much, much better. for one, you can zoom in closer to your characters/use better camera angles, since you don't really have to worry about needing to leave enough room onscreen for a dialogue box.

[Cless Aileron]

I think you subverted your own point. Both Tales of Symphonia and Tales of Vesperia have "tough" chicks like Sheena, Presea, Rita and Judith. Colette is also far from being a damsel in distress, especially once her angel abilities develop. Not to mention that Phantasia had Suzu to round out the cast.

For the most part, Tales is pretty progressive in this regard.

I'll have to reply in two different angles.  But first I'll have to add something to cover more on Mint being on the list.

I think she ended up on the list because of these character traits:
*The kind, sweet girl.  (I.E.  Not the tough one)
*The pretty one.
*The healer...considering the class, it also means lacking in physical attack...and even defense.

Add it up and we created a character for potential kidnapping.  I think that's how others put her on the damsel in distress list.

Now, back on the response...looking over the list again (and Tear), the ones mentioned are the main heroines.  The main heroines also are usually the one getting kidnapped.  It seems it's never the "other" girls that get kidnapped.

On the other angle...you got me there.  Guess I keep hearing the complaint about the main heroine, thus I only mentioned Tear as a tough girl...since she's Abyss's main heroine.

P.S.  Something's telling me most people might be cool with the whole "Young lad in distress" bit.  At least it's not another girl.

[Craymel]

I've always thought tales needed to upgrade some aspects. Cut scenes are a bit of a biggie for me. You know what? They don't even have to get rid of text boxes. Hell just look at the 3d zeldas! Perfect example of how you can make cinematic like cut scenes while using text bubbles.

wind waker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBx9SAIW0cQ

majoras mask
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Chm0_ImrQA&feature=related

Orcarina of time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge8zd1ZR-hc

Twilight princess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jog6QPjBcyg

and yes I have also felt tales stories need a splash of... Good direction and subtlety. I think one of my biggest pet peeves with any anime are those that forget what medium of media they're actually using. I don't need you to tell me what you're doing every five seconds I can SEE YOU!!! What I do like about the tales games are the skits... WHEN THEY ARE VOICED! Other wise I ignore them. If a future tales game wants to pull an ff12 on me (story wise) I'd love it... Just don't put in any Vaan like characters. I have to say that marketing is crucial when trying to widen you're audience or selling a product all together. If it wasn't no one would pay to advertise. In fact advertisers have ads down to a very creepy, psychoanalyst, big brother like science. They can give a very accurate estimate of who will buy you're product depending on their advertising approach. Did I mention it's creepy?

Edit: One more thing. Fixed camera angles NEED TO GO! They're useless and limiting and annoying.