The Best Tales Games of All Time (With a bit of a twist?)

[Fluffy]

Maybe this isn't the most interesting topic, but I'm bored, so, yeah.

Anyway, it was interesting to me -- I don't know how many of you know, but recently, Famitsu magazine had a vote for the Top 100 Games of All Time. Not surprisingly, a few of the games that are on the list are Tales games. But what I found interesting were the games on the list, and where they appeared in relation to the others.

Here they are:

44. Tales of the Abyss (2005)
57. Tales of Eternia (2000)
79. Tales of Destiny (1997)
89. Tales of Destiny II (2002)
92. Tales of Rebirth (2004)

As the article where I found this states, "Famitsu is, overwhelmingly, the voice of the Japanese games community, dwarfing all other publications in sales and influence."

Going by that, this kinda throws things outta whack for me (I guess). I always thought Tales of Phantasia was one of the best (though I've only played what's been released in the US), and I always thought the same for Tales of Symphonia. Yet neither of them appear on the list. I'm not really gonna try to understand why. But I wanna know what other people think. ^_^;

The article and entire list can be found here: http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2401&Itemid=2

...The other games listed there also raise some questions, in my opinion.. I mean, Final Fantasy X beating out VII?...Eh, I dunno... XD

[supersonic1453]

Haven't played Abyss
Eternia is my favorite Tales game
Destiny was way better than SNES ToP, but I've never played PSX ToP (need a swap disc)
Destiny II was really good.  The new battle system was fun but frustrating at times.
Never played Rebirth

I like ToP and ToS, but I liked Eternia way better than Symphonia and Phantasia.  I dunno why but I really liked the battle system in that game.  It just felt good to fight enemies

And wtf, X is higher than VII.  I'm gonna have to peruse this article later...

[Kogahazan]

You also have to be aware that this a survey of people who actually read Famitsu. There's also the factor of people who actually cared to vote.

Though given the spacing between each Tales game, perhaps the people who didn't vote don't really matter all too much.

[supersonic1453]

I'm aware of that.  I took Stat too, but still it is the most popular gaming magazine in Japan.

[Datschge]

This thread gave me a crazy deja-vu feeling...

[Joan-Michele]

Well what do you know! The Japanese gamers are a whole lot more sensible. 

[Fluffy]

I like ToP and ToS, but I liked Eternia way better than Symphonia and Phantasia.  I dunno why but I really liked the battle system in that game.  It just felt good to fight enemies

I've been replaying Eternia, and I really do liket he battle system a lot. I don't know if it's my favorite, but... It still gives me the fondest memories. ^_^

And wtf, X is higher than VII.  I'm gonna have to peruse this article later...

Yes, I seem to think there's a problem here, too. Like Kogahazan said, "There's also the factor of people who actually cared to vote." ...Yeah.

Well what do you know! The Japanese gamers are a whole lot more sensible. 

I dunno about that. XD

[Kogahazan]

This thread gave me a crazy deja-vu feeling...

Haha, yeah. I remember your thread on the old forum. I was about to say the topic creator was a little late to the party, but better late than never. Anyway your thread was on the old board where the newer members wouldn't think to look. This gives the topic fresh discussion... but I don't really know what else there is to say about it.

[Fluffy]

LoL! Hence my starting with, "Maybe this isn't the most interesting topic, but I'm bored, so, yeah." XD...

[Rhapsody]

That is certainly a bizarre and (in my opinion) illegitmate top 100 list. If I were to be making a Top 100 Games of All Time list, I'd insist on three basic rules.

1) The votes are to be spread out across multiple countries, with no country getting a disproprtionately large amount of votes.
2) No games newer than 10 years old are allowed. Any votes for such games are to be considered null and void.
3) If any one genre should account for more than 49 games in the final list, the whole list is to be scrapped and we start again.

I think that would make it more fair and equitable.

[Fluffy]

How is it an illegitimate top 100? It's what Japan thinks. No one ever said it's what the world thinks. Obviously other countries have a different opinion. If such a vote was done in the USA, both Halo AND Halo 2 would be on there, so...

The other thing is, your rules are pretty flawed. How can you justify not being able to vote for a game that's newer than 10 years old? That would make voting for anything PS2, XBox, Gamecube, Dreamcast, most PlayStation, Sega Saturn, and Nintedo 64 null and void. Having a rule like this would also cut out many gamers that haven't been gaming since the old NES and SNES days. I know it may be scary to hear it now, but there are people that have only been gaming since the PS2 era, and I don't see how their vote is any less valid than mine, simply because they haven't played older games.

And again, how can you justify cutting out a genre simply because it overruns the list? Sure, you can say, that's fair, but it's obviously not true. If you want to be fair genre-wise, you'd need to do an entirely separate type of list: "The Best Games of All Time (By Genre)" or something along those lines.

Doing a straight 100 top games of all time list is totally different, because you're allowing people to vote for whatever game they feel is the best. You cannot just cut games out, for whatever reason, whether the genre monoplizes the list, or the game isn't old enough.

I agree that to make a TRUE 100 Greatest Games of All Time list, it would need to be voted on internationally. But tell me how you're going to prevent one country from possibly voting (disproportionately) more than another? I'm betting that the USA and Japan would vote a lot more than, say, France would, because they're not the gaming obsessed people that either of the former are. That of course also leads to the problem that many games that the Japanese would be voting on would not have been released in North America. So do you disallow people from voting on those because they haven't been localized elsewhere, as to make it "fair"? That's cutting out an awful lot of games. 

[Rhapsody]

How is it an illegitimate top 100?

It's an opinion. Justification is optional.

It's what Japan thinks. No one ever said it's what the world thinks.

That's why I called it illegimate. This is not "What Japanese Gamers Think Are The Top 100 Games of All Time", it's just "The Top 100 Games of All Time". I think something with a title like that should be held to standards strict enough to stop Final Fantasy X (it was good, but not the best ever) from getting the #1 spot.

Obviously other countries have a different opinion. If such a vote was done in the USA, both Halo AND Halo 2 would be on there, so...

Which is why I advocated balance. All countries are stupid in their own unique way.

The other thing is, your rules are pretty flawed. How can you justify not being able to vote for a game that's newer than 10 years old? That would make voting for anything PS2, XBox, Gamecube, Dreamcast, most PlayStation, Sega Saturn, and Nintedo 64 null and void.

Exactly. To experienced gamers, those games happened yesterday. Hell, the #1 game in that top 100 was from a game in a generation that hasn't even ended yet!

Having a rule like this would also cut out many gamers that haven't been gaming since the old NES and SNES days.

You seem to see my reasons, but not the overal rationale behind them.

I know it may be scary to hear it now, but there are people that have only been gaming since the PS2 era, and I don't see how their vote is any less valid than mine, simply because they haven't played older games.

Emaphasis is mine. They're young, inexperienced, don't know the greatness that they missed, they vote three year old games as the best ever. I wouldn't feel even slightly bad for excluding them.

And again, how can you justify cutting out a genre simply because it overruns the list?

Reread the rules. All genres are valid, but none can take an absolute majority of the list, because that's just ridiculous.

Sure, you can say, that's fair, but it's obviously not true. If you want to be fair genre-wise, you'd need to do an entirely separate type of list: "The Best Games of All Time (By Genre)" or something along those lines.

That's a good idea. Multiple genre lists, with a final round for for the 'Best Games Ever'. Why didn't you say that at the start?

Doing a straight 100 top games of all time list is totally different, because you're allowing people to vote for whatever game they feel is the best. You cannot just cut games out, for whatever reason, whether the genre monoplizes the list, or the game isn't old enough.

Yes I can, because in this hypothetical situation that will almost certainly never happen, this is my list. I make the rules.

I agree that to make a TRUE 100 Greatest Games of All Time list, it would need to be voted on internationally. But tell me how you're going to prevent one country from possibly voting (disproportionately) more than another? I'm betting that the USA and Japan would vote a lot more than, say, France would, because they're not the gaming obsessed people that either of the former are. That of course also leads to the problem that many games that the Japanese would be voting on would not have been released in North America. So do you disallow people from voting on those because they haven't been localized elsewhere, as to make it "fair"? That's cutting out an awful lot of games. 

I would think a game failing to make the list because the developers only released it to a limited audience is the fault of the developers, not me.

The rest is tricky, but doesn't sound impossible to work out. I stand by my proposed rules.

[Joan-Michele]

Then how about conducting your own poll and leaving this one alone? 

[Kajitani-Eizan]

that 10 year rule sounds dumb. what, so older games are automatically better than newer ones? in case you didn't notice, there have been giant strides in technology, globalization via the internet, etc. etc. in the last ten years. this has also increased the size of the talent pool, possibly the amount of funding for game research and development, etc. why is it not reasonable for people to say FFX is the best game (or one of the best games) of all time, exactly?

also:

That's why I called it illegimate. This is not "What Japanese Gamers Think Are The Top 100 Games of All Time", it's just "The Top 100 Games of All Time".

uh yeah, that's obvious. this was published in Famitsu, which is CLEARLY a japanese magazine that is read almost solely by japanese people. and anyway, especially in something as painfully subjective as this, rampant bias is practically unavoidable. i'm not really sure what you're trying to do here.

if you REALLY want a more accurate list, here's what you should do:
- compile a list of "hardcore" or "veteran" gamers from around the world.
- use statistical sampling to choose a bunch of gamers from this list. say, 50 or so. make sure that the popular genres are proportionately represented.
- stick them into a big meeting room or something.
- ? ? ? ?
- PROFIT! by selling gaming mags the results of your list.

[stahn]

Man I only played and own

ToD
ToD 2 ps2
ToE
ToP snes & psx
ToL

I must say that when I first played ToD it was my best game
but when I got Eternia I change my mind when I got ToP psx I again change my mind and so and so.....

but The best for me is ToE for it's story and characters( Ras )
but man I love them all 

[Joan-Michele]

Ohh yes! Rass is so fecking awesome, the only downside is that you can't upgrade his weapon when you have him in your party, but still...Neo Swarm + Dragon Flash or Dragon Swarm = MAJOR ass-kicking. (Super Lightning Blade is pretty much useless in that area though and it's harder to chain sacred skills after Super Lightning Blade)