Tales of Vesperia confirmed for X360, North American release

[Cyllya]

I think it was "Oh, shit...! But he still deserved it."

Oh, definately. I was just being less specific. (Although, it's hard to know that's how he feels until you've played that sequel nobody cares about.)

But man, Yuri wanting to be the light in the darkness? Dare I venture on guessing a little hero complex?

Definitely potential for a character flaw. Quite possibly even one which character development won't boot to the curb.

But huh, 4 OVL gauges. Makes me wonder if even Team Symphonia were pressured more to do and branch out on hi-ougi stuff. Is that incorporating Japanese or stateside feedback?

I seem to notice that so many put so much emphasis on hi-ougi.

They should just dump hi-ougis and make a purdy picture pop up with every skill. With the art style they're doing, it would be easy because they can just use prerendered 3D to produce a variety of high-quality cut-in pictures quickly.

They should, of course, include something in the options menu for turning this off on all but the biggest flashiest skills. >_>

as for hi-ougis, i think they're a little TOO easy to do in abyss. by the end of the game, you're probably getting a hi-ougi every battle if you're playing as luke or guy, at least on hard mode, while the rest of your party (especially tear and natalia, as the former is often healing and the latter has no attack spells) builds at a more normal rate. more variation would be nice, instead of just whipping out this one supermove (or maybe a second, if you've beaten the game) every time. setting up big combos is probably a good way to change it up.

I think it's good for a battle system to have stuff you can do regularly but not all the time, like ToA's hi-ougis and FoFs, or ToS's U-attack compounds. Stuff like ToE's and ToS's hi-ougis (or almost U-Attack compounds if you don't use a FAQ) or ToE's equivalent of U-attack compounds/FoFs might as well not be there for all that they affect regular gameplay. ToA's hi-ougis' power was balanced with their frequency, by which I mean they were usually pretty weak.

Well, uber-powerful really-hard-to-pull-off things are cool in addition to that. Even when they're not hi-ougi. (I'm looking at you, certain over-powered unimpressive-looking ToS tokugi.) It's kind of a shame ToA's second hi-ougis were only on a clear file.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

I think it's good for a battle system to have stuff you can do regularly but not all the time, like ToA's hi-ougis and FoFs, or ToS's U-attack compounds. Stuff like ToE's and ToS's hi-ougis (or almost U-Attack compounds if you don't use a FAQ) or ToE's equivalent of U-attack compounds/FoFs might as well not be there for all that they affect regular gameplay. ToA's hi-ougis' power was balanced with their frequency, by which I mean they were usually pretty weak.

yeah, that is true. i like ToA's FoFs for this reason, though by endgame you can spam them like crazy, what with strike artes that cause partial FoF circles/enemies that cause FoF circles + sunlight chambers, fonic artes that cause fully formed FoF circles, etc. luke, guy, and jade all have easily spammable self-FoF combos.

i think i literally got +9.00 grade one boss battle (probably spoiler uber hard bonus boss) from "FOF Change Used", along with +6.00 from "Mystic Arte Used". that's 36 FoF changes...

Well, uber-powerful really-hard-to-pull-off things are cool in addition to that. Even when they're not hi-ougi. (I'm looking at you, certain over-powered unimpressive-looking ToS tokugi.) It's kind of a shame ToA's second hi-ougis were only on a clear file.

? talking about an elemental skill? grave blade is it?

also, technically, ToA's second hi-ougis are usable on your first playthrough once you beat the game. the problem is that a) you've likely already beaten most or all of the available bosses left and b) three of them require specific end-game equipment, which is annoying as all hell for your second playthrough. especially for natalia, since her first hi-ougi is both relatively lame looking and weak.

[FSLink]

Personally, my gripe with Abyss' hi-ougi system was the fact that it kind of stopped the flow of battle...using Overlimits usually stopped combos early in the game when your casters aren't juggling the enemy for you or something. Sure, you could do another combo while you're in OL, but I still felt it disrupted the flow...

I kind of liked Destiny Remake's in how you could link the hi-ougi from a move (as well as Reid in Eternia using Burning Phoenix...)....though I think Destiny Remake had the hi-ougis way too common...>_> Abyss was pretty good in the frequency for the most part.

Hopefully Vesperia's increased attack speed while in OL among other things unannounced will remedy this...

[Kajitani-Eizan]

yeah, the combo stopping was annoying. either you had to OL before starting a combo, or MAYBE OL during dragon tempest to restart it, which may or may not work. or do crazy stuff no one sane would ever do outside of a combo video, like OL right after casting a spell or something.

also annoying is how the hi-ougi generally ends the combo due to knockdown. it would be neat to, say, link hi-ougis together from different characters, or just incorporate it into a combo without it needing to be the end of the combo.

[throughhim413]

I find it interesting that the same artist will be preforming both an English and a Japanese version of the OP.  Makes me wonder who we'll be looking at.  They said it was someone with worldwide appeal, but the only person coming to mind is Hikaru Utada.  Her work on Kingdom Hearts won her a lot of fans in the States.  Of course, I'm making the assumption that they chose the artist based first on the need for a Japanese OP, so it would be a Japanese person.  But we've seen Legendia have English vocalists, so who knows.  Either way, I'm thrilled about this game.  Bandai Namco is definitely way ahead of their times, making full note of the fact that Japan isn't the only place in the world that's going to buy this.

Of course, at the same time, this game is a a sign of changing times in game localization.  That in particular I've got a vested interest in.  Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing for my future, I don't know, but I'm thrilled to hear game with this much behind it is coming our way.  I'm going to have to buy a 360 as soon as I get back to the States.

[gogs]

my gripe with Abyss' hi-ougi system was the fact that it kind of stopped the flow of battle...

What's ironic now is that hi-ougis have become another kind of the very thing they tried to tone down all the way back with ToE: spell/skill pause. It's just funny to me that the pause most of you hated because it slowed down the flow of the game so much found its way back in super flashy watch-my-awesome-RAAAGE-cut-in hi-ougi form. They give you more flow, combo/connectability, and then shove fighting game supers in with 3-5 sec execution time. That's a hell of a balance. And now OVLs are gonna be stockpilable? It's sounding more like a super than ever. People have essentially traded in one skill pause for another, albeit a less frequent awesomer one.

A sweeping generalization: Personally I think Team Destiny keeps trying to streamline their battle system (ToDR being the fastest goddamned one) by making most things connectable and fluid, while Team Symphonia keeps slowing back the flow down.

I mean, hi-ougis used to blend in with the tone/style of the battle field (one-tone, quick eyes/face cut-in, transparent... ish). It wasn't 'til ToR when it was different with full screen full-color cut-ins. But I think what they were trying to do actually had more sense than others. It was flashy but it didn't happen often; it was actually a way to curb the hype around them. You can hate the fact hi-ougis are pointless in that game when there has to be only one dude who's about to die (if you can even meet the other 50 requirements), but at least a hi-ougi always ended the battle; you wouldn't trivialize them doing a dozen a battle. Hi-ougis ARE the end-all moves in that game. It placed them on a higher exclusive unspamable end than any of the other Tales did. And unsurprisingly, people gave them crap for it.

Full-color non-transparent face cut-ins I can forgive more or less (used to be just the eyes to show the charas' INTENSITY or whatever; ToD2 PSP went and changed all the original eyes cut-ins with ugly full-color faces), and there seems to be more cut-in time nowadays but maybe that's an illusion (and more kudos to ToDR actually for making them seem quick again), but I honestly draw the line at full body cut-ins. Sure, ToE had that (Elemental Master, Quasi Seal (sorta)) but again, it blended in with the battle and was a mere blip on the screen compared to now. I get the concept of supers and this series screams for them, but each Tales trying to out-do the last on hi-ougis is getting ridiculous. It was extravagant enough in ToE; I'd much prefer that game's cut-in style.

[Kevassa]

What's ironic now is that hi-ougis have become another kind of the very thing they tried to tone down all the way back with ToE: spell/skill pause. It's just funny to me that the pause most of you hated because it slowed down the flow of the game so much found its way back in super flashy watch-my-awesome-RAAAGE-cut-in hi-ougi form. They give you more flow, combo/connectability, and then shove fighting game supers in with 3-5 sec execution time. That's a hell of a balance. And now OVLs are gonna be stockpilable? It's sounding more like a super than ever. People have essentially traded in one skill pause for another, albeit a less frequent awesomer one.

A sweeping generalization: Personally I think Team Destiny keeps trying to streamline their battle system (ToDR being the fastest goddamned one) by making most things connectable and fluid, while Team Symphonia keeps slowing back the flow down.

I mean, hi-ougis used to blend in with the tone/style of the battle field (one-tone, quick eyes/face cut-in, transparent... ish). It wasn't 'til ToR when it was different with full screen full-color cut-ins. But I think what they were trying to do actually had more sense than others. It was flashy but it didn't happen often; it was actually a way to curb the hype around them. You can hate the fact hi-ougis are pointless in that game when there has to be only one dude who's about to die (if you can even meet the other 50 requirements), but at least a hi-ougi always ended the battle; you wouldn't trivialize them doing a dozen a battle. Hi-ougis ARE the end-all moves in that game. It placed them on a higher exclusive unspamable end than any of the other Tales did. And unsurprisingly, people gave them crap for it.

Full-color non-transparent face cut-ins I can forgive more or less (used to be just the eyes to show the charas' INTENSITY or whatever; ToD2 PSP went and changed all the original eyes cut-ins with ugly full-color faces), and there seems to be more cut-in time nowadays but maybe that's an illusion (and more kudos to ToDR actually for making them seem quick again), but I honestly draw the line at full body cut-ins. Sure, ToE had that (Elemental Master, Quasi Seal (sorta)) but again, it blended in with the battle and was a mere blip on the screen compared to now. I get the concept of supers and this series screams for them, but each Tales trying to out-do the last on hi-ougis is getting ridiculous. It was extravagant enough in ToE; I'd much prefer that game's cut-in style.

I dont know what to say to your show of feelings, but just one point I dont understand at all, why are the full color cut in bad, again? I like ToD2 PSP cut-ins more than the PS2

[Datschge]

A sweeping generalization: Personally I think Team Destiny keeps trying to streamline their battle system (ToDR being the fastest goddamned one) by making most things connectable and fluid, while Team Symphonia keeps slowing back the flow down.

"Sweeping generalization"? I thought this was apparent since TotA stagnated/broken battle system while each of Team Destiny/Tatsuro Udo's new game since ToE featured new battle systems with actual polishing and level balancing mixed with novel ingredients. All really new Tales battle system innovations so far come from Team Destiny while Team Symphonia hasn't even reached a battle system with ToE level perfection yet. </Tatsuro Udo fanboy>

[Cless]

ToE level perfection

It took three games to get there, though.

[Rmarques]

I find it interesting that the same artist will be preforming both an English and a Japanese version of the OP.  Makes me wonder who we'll be looking at.  They said it was someone with worldwide appeal, but the only person coming to mind is Hikaru Utada.  Her work on Kingdom Hearts won her a lot of fans in the States.  Of course, I'm making the assumption that they chose the artist based first on the need for a Japanese OP, so it would be a Japanese person.  But we've seen Legendia have English vocalists, so who knows. 

Angela Aki would probably be a good choice too. Her singing of FF12's theme in both the Japanese and the English version ought to have won her a few points. And I suppose, there's also Rie Fu, who has already done a few concerts in Europe, and is even about to release an album on Europe (if she hasn't already). Doing the first ending for Bleach probably won her a few points too.

Mind you, I'm just going by singers that actually speak English, so for all I know, they could pull out Ayumi Hamasaki (God I hope not).

Haha, everyone else is talking about gameplay issues and here I am, going on and on about OP artist choices.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

i have to agree about the cut-in thing. the action actually PAUSES to show the cutin for a significant amount of time. it's like, a DOUBLE spell pause. let's review.

ToE: action only really pauses in burning phoenix, and that's practically tied with the action-pausing hiougi "flash".
ToD2: action pauses right at the start, same time as the hiougi "flash".
ToS: action pauses right at the climax of the move. OOPS.
ToR: action pauses right at the start, same time as the hiougi "flash". also point about it being a battle ender is key.
ToL: lol. the whole system is about pausing action.
ToA: action pauses right at the climax of the move to show you a full-color, opaque image for like an entire second. OOPS, AGAIN.
ToDR: action pauses right at the start, same time as the hiougi "flash".

i'm seeing a pattern here.

[Datschge]

It took three games to get there, though.

And that's the only saving grace Team Symphonia still has. And it's not even necessarily true considering that ToP SFC, ToD/ToP PSX and ToE all had completely different game/battle design staffs, with only ToE defining the stable "Team Destiny" core group of people still involved even today. Team Symphonia seems to have its core team together from the get go, but the people behind their battle systems (Osamu Hisano and Go Murai) still need to prove that a 3D Tales battle system can stand on its own. For now I'll hope Vesperia finally does that as I don't know if we'll see any more 2D Team Destiny games...

[gogs]

I thought this was apparent

It's called a generalization because it's not entirely true. ToR might be smooth in its own rhythm, but it still plays like everyone except Tytree's made of lead. Coming off ToD2 and ToS, I don't blame people for feeling the whole game plays a beat and half slower. And don't try to tell me ToD2's battle system is balanced with overpowered magic vs your melee, chipping away at bosses waiting for the next spell. It's arguably even more disgraceful to see that after ToE's perfection. It's also a generalization because I based it on just results, not intentions. For all I know Team Symphonia had excellent ideas in mind but just didn't pan out that way (benefit of the doubt). Of course, intentions aren't worth a crap these days, I guess. I'm a Team Destiny fanboy too, but fair's fair.

why are the full color cut in bad, again?

They suck, that's why. More accurately, the reason for them sucks. They stand-out for the sake of standing out, expecting you to get a warm fuzzy feeling whenever they pop up (rejoice in their awesomeness!). No transparency and no attempt to blend in with the feel of the battle.

Angela Aki would probably be a good choice too.

This is just personal opinion but her songs/style just don't scream Tales. I like her but she doesn't seem to fit the cutesy Tales style. It's gonna be someone more pop, if I had to guess. Now watch me bite my tongue. (I was gonna say you forgot Koda Kumi, who has a following here, and kinda appropriate being under Avex. ...but I guess Avex and Namco's partnership thing's been done after ToL?)

[Kevassa]

I dont know if this will offend anyone, but your judgment might be a little too exaggerate, a flash second time stop doesnt compare to the old full spell stop. Might be that I am accustommed to old skool games, bu except for Symphonia and Abyss hi ougis, all of the hi ougis are just quick paced, and mostly dont interrupd combos, if you dont like the "flash" stop thingy, you shouldnt like mid level spells either (this was fixed on post- rebirth games)

[Rmarques]

This is just personal opinion but her songs/style just don't scream Tales. I like her but she doesn't seem to fit the cutesy Tales style.

And Bump of Chicken and Do As Infinity fit? *gets linked to some of BoC's earlier works* Ok, ok, maybe BoC, but DaI? Besides, Angela can pull a more pop song.

(I was gonna say you forgot Koda Kumi, who has a following here, and kinda appropriate being under Avex. ...but I guess Avex and Namco's partnership thing's been done after ToL?)

Oh yeah, Koda... I honestly hope to God they stay away from her. Really, I can't say I've seen a lot of her work, but unless she has stuff that is radically different from what I've seen, I'd rather have one of Angela's really sad songs as an OP theme.

[spaceworlder]

I prefer Team Symphonia to Team Destiny. Just sayin'.