Tales of Symphonia : Knight of Ratatosk coming to US

[pedrocasilva]

Why change the subtitle?  That's the only thing I don't get.

My guess is... they're making it easy on the tongue compared to "Ratatosk" who is something unknown to most. Kinda like Baten Kaitos Origins should be: Baten Kaitos 2: The Beggining of the Wings and the Heir to the gods... But they thought it was too long for American people to memorize.

[Kevassa]

I'm interested. I'm actually digging deeper into the DC than I did with the original. But that doesn't mean I'm going to announce a project soon. I want to finish ToP and get further with ToD2 before I even think of that.

I can say that this deep directory system is really pissing me off, though.

I still wish Namco would do this game officially so that it would be one huge thing off my back.

We all do, I reckon the effort you two are putting into all of this, and it is awesome (specially since PS2 is so hard to hack) but I have hopes (Hope and love baby) to have this game in english, PLEASE NAMCO IF YOU ARE THERE TRANSLATE THIS! We all would buy it! Forget about the no-2d policy, DISGAEA MADE IT DAMN IT!

[gyozilla]

Why change the subtitle? It's called marketing. Japanese revels in unique buzz words, they like relatable taglines here. It's like asking why they change quiet serene stoic Japanese cover art to in-your-face for US. Whether the marketing moves are good is another thing. While I don't always support them doing that, I'm always amused to see how more people are pretty much ok with manga/anime/other media doing that, but it's a no-no bordering on a freaking travesty when it comes to gaming (ohnoes they've censored culture AGAIN).

[Kajitani-Eizan]

i agree. example: abyss cover art. i think people would look at the original box art and be like "wtf is this wussy shit?"

[throughhim413]

I wasn't particularly complaining about it.  I don't think it's a bad change or some sort of atrocity, I was just questioning the logic.  As you say, it's certainly marketing related.  I was never all that attached to the original subtitle nor am I attached to the new one.  It's not as though it impacts the game in any way, which is what I'm primarily concerned with.

I don't like name changes regardless of the medium, but I'm not trying to make any audacious claims here.  The fact that we now have two subtitles only contributes to the fact that in the end, this game is going to be referred to as ToS2.  But hey, ToS:KoR was too long to begin with.

[Carnivol]

Original title:
"Tales of Symphonia 2 - Lesser known Norse Mythology Rodent Reference - The Game"

[Thundercles]

I don't like name changes regardless of the medium

Is there a line, dividing the acceptable name changes from the unacceptable ones? Are any name changes acceptable?

Personally, Dawn of the New World is way too clichéd a title, but Knight of Ratatosk doesn't invoke enough epic-ness, really ("lemme get this straight, you're the vassal of a messenger squirrel?").  Still, I'm tired of "the New World"; living in the New World makes you a little jaded to that expression.

[Dimentionalist]

Info from Nintendo Power, which I originally posted on GameFAQ's.

Falls between a spin-off and a sequel (there. let's end this argument NOW.)
- Luin are completely dry. Falnoir still the same.
- Roughly 1/2 the dungeons are re-used.
- Possibly the "darkest story in the series".
- 11 hours of voiced event scenes
- Actual vocals in the opening song a possibility.
- Opening scene is Emil being bullied about not bowing down to a Lloyd statue.
- Marta's Ratatosk core contains the spirit.
- 230 monsters to capture
- They're not directly playable.
- Player can guide monster development.
- Element of battlefield key to capturing monsters
- Party monsters can "appeal" to enemies increase odds of capturing it.
- "This is not Tales of Symphonia 2 (in terms of gameplay)" is reinstated.
- ToS sucess attributed to 3D and timing
- Originally planned as more of a spin-off, got more complex as it went on (international sucess a factor).
- Didn't go casual route do to hardcore fanbase.
- Additional motion controls could be added to US version
- Full motion controls would dumb down the game.
- Scenario writer same as original TOS, most of staff is new.
- Sorcerer's Ring is used by pointing and clicking at the screen.
- Fujishima couldn't do designs (too busy); Daigo Okamura is designer.
- Certain monsters more effective in certain dungeons
- Affection system is in; works with monsters mainly, and side quests.
- Cooking system boosts monster stats.
- Ratatosk made an appearance in the first game.
- Little mieu-like animal has the Sorcerer Ring
- Emil is journying to seals to find a new spirit, Lloyd stops them.
- Girl named Alice rides around on giant monsters.

[throughhim413]

Is there a line, dividing the acceptable name changes from the unacceptable ones? Are any name changes acceptable?

Personal taste?  I don't know...  I'm not sure why everyone is so stuck on the comment.  It was simply made in passing.  There's nothing scientific about it, it's just an opinion.  I don't care for Engrishy names or ones that just don't make sense in English.  I understand that changes are made for the sake of sales and accessibility to the average consumer.  My original comment was mostly meant to express that this name change wasn't necessary.  I don't think making bizarre Norse references was going to scare anyone off, if that were the case, people wouldn't have made it through the original ToS.  Rather, my thought process was that the fact that the title starts with Tales of Symphonia is about all the appeal they'll need as far as the name goes.

[Carnivol]

Come to think of it, dropping by the official Japanese site for ToS Wii. The game hasn't exactly got an English name as "Knight of Ratatosk" anywhere.

Reason I'm pointing this out is because you often see quite a lot of this. Various mediums going for a different title when released other places (instead of keeping the foreign name or just using a direct translation).


I guess Europeans are probably the most familiar with how this works (Like, take a look at The Sims 2 - Expansion Pack names... Some non-English countries even went with an English approach, just with a different title than the official English title). But yeah, most of us Europeans don't have English as our native language and thus are more used to other stuff being brought to us (with different names). While the English speaking parts of the world are often more used to just getting the biggest of the biggest from other parts of the world, which of course means they'll be getting stuff that often had international appeal (and investments/producers) in mind to begin with and thus carried an English (or Engrish) title from the start.

There are of course risky things when touching titles. You might touch the main title and mess up some sort of continuity (Like how Die Hard 1 in my country was initially released as something that translates back to English as "Operation Skyscraper", a title that basically blended in with many titles built on the "Operation ______" title formula. This created huge issues when Die Hard 2 suddenly came around and Operation Airport wasn't exactly an attractive title and Operation Skyscraper 2 would make no sense).

Have to say, though. Out of personal experience with having to make decisions, it's always easier to touch (or add) a subtitle than a main title.


Also, I think the whole "don't touch it!" thing is just something that somewhat has spawned as a tiny thing between people who spend time online from day 1 looking at something.

(Oh dear... I'm working on a wall of text again )

[pedrocasilva]

More, or other sources:

Interview with Teruaki Konishi and Tsutomu Gouda

- Symphonia highest selling Tales game in the US and still selling better than Abyss (how bout porting it?)

- Planned as a spin-off, later decided to expand the scale and make it a direct story sequel
- Project started summer of 06.
- Nintendo specifically asked them to gear the game for a hardcore audience
- Monster system implemented to make the game more enjoyable for newcomers without watering down the full Tales experience; catering to hardcore Tales fans first and foremost - no changes made for casuals.

- Light use of the Wii remote, activating shortcuts without watering down the Tales experience: pointing at what you want to shoot with the Sorcerer's Ring; click and drag the world map and select destination with the pointer.
- Might be looking at adding more motion-control features to the NA release (no comment)

- Scenario writer for DotNW wrote the original game. Few other design staff from the original game, but majority are new to the series. (where the f*ck is Team Symphonia? don't tell me it's Vesperia!)
- Character proportions changed to stay faithful to new designs
- Fujishima was too busy to do the character designs, so Daigo Okumura (art director for Symphonia and Abyss) did it. (he was available to do vesperia though, f*ckers)

- Monster capturing system intended to be strategic (certain monsters are more useful in certain situations) and a collect-a-thon. Difficult to collect all monsters the first time through the game, though.
- Affection system present in the monster attraction aspect, no story changes as there were with the original game. Optional side quests available.
- Cooking system returns, but now the Wonder Chef teaches you recipies for monster food, which will change your monster parameters or aid their evolution.

- Ratatosk was in the original game but was dormant, and has now awakened.

- Whenever Emil et al find a new spirit, Lloyd is there trying to stop them - why?

THE END

Not part of the interview, but a quote from Gouda at the end of the reveal article:
Quote:
This game is not Tales of Symphonia 2 [noting the many experimental aspects of the game's structure and mechanics]. In terms of the storyline, however, Symphonia 2 is exactly what it is.

Also from the article:

Of the 8 surviving characters, all are playable at some point in the game - Zelos in, *spoiler* Kratos out (but he's the narrator of the intro) *spoiler*. Emil and Marta are the only permanent human characters, the rest of the party of 4 is made up of monsters and guest appearances.

About half of the locations and dungeons are rehashed from the original game (though quite a bit different due to changes in the world).

Monsters recruitment is determined by the element of the battlefield compared to the element of the monster, and influenced by the monster from your party you use to sway them.

11 hours of voiced event scenes and character skits. Event scenes feature realistically proportioned characters, cinematic camera angles and motion-captured character animation. "Prospects looking good for fully voiced skits and perhaps even actual theme-song vocals in the game's North American version."

(about time!)

As Always Nintendo is getting ass raped; give me this and Vesperia and I'll overlook it; but damn... Damn Namco Bandai.

[Datschge]

Project started summer of 06.

Yet another indication that quite some part of the team may be the same as Tempest (for which Teruaki Konishi was one of the Namco directors). May it even be developed by Dimps again? We will see. 

[pedrocasilva]

Yet another indication that quite some part of the team may be the same as Tempest (for which Teruaki Konishi was one of the Namco directors). May it even be developed by Dimps again? We will see. 

Hell NO, I'd seriously write Namco hatemail in 10 languages.

The bastards.

[Cyllya]

Yet another indication that quite some part of the team may be the same as Tempest (for which Teruaki Konishi was one of the Namco directors). May it even be developed by Dimps again? We will see. 

How is that an indication of anything? Are you saying that a development time of less than two years is too long long for a game of this scope?

[pedrocasilva]

How is that an indication of anything? Are you saying that a development time of less than two years is too long long for a game of this scope?

It's just his suspicion.

What we know for sure now is that Bandai Namco is using their Weekend-Team on this shit with rehashed assets and no world map, while they use Team Symphonia on Tales of Vesperia; and that Fujishima didn't do the Character's Artwork "due to lack of time", but somehow got time to do so on Vesperia's.

Double standards for the win; using Team-B (or is this Team-Z?) on the project that's likely to sell more, and using Team-A (Team Symphonia) on a X360 game that's likely to sell 5 copies in Japan. Wow, Bandai Namco, just... wow.

[Carnivol]

As Always Nintendo is getting ass raped; give me this and Vesperia and I'll overlook it; but damn... Damn Namco Bandai.

Don't really see the rape there. (Rather the other way around.)


But as a side note, 360 localization is going strong it seems (Namco seems to be a front runner when it comes to doing it on their own). So I don't think it's unlikely that Vesperia will show up in English.  And I bet Nintendo is taking part of the bill for Symphonia, which would be good in all possible ways.

And as for the development time, it is a pretty good time for something that is heavily based around recycled assets.

a X360 game that's likely to sell 5 copies in Japan.

If international sales can make up for that, then it's not much of a concern at all. Besides, most of Namco's 360 titles have had some solid sales back home in Japan for being on a platform people have labeled a failure.


As for the artwork thing, most of the character designs in general were already there and the new characters don't exactly stand out as much different from the previous characters. Doing character design work is more than just sitting down for 5min and doodling something on a paper and giving it to the person who ordered it and if Fujishima didn't have the time I'm fairly certain the alternative was picked on some sort of recommendation.