Tales of Symphonia : Knight of Ratatosk coming to US

[pedrocasilva]

You can't know how much effort is being put in it before it's released.

I can look at the graphics and think they're really subpar to what they could be though.

I mean, you can know the graphics are bad (or at least worse than Vesperia's), but coming from a Wii game, that's kind of expected. i mean, you didn't buy a Wii because the graphics impressed you, did you?

It shouldn't, Wii is the weakest platform so it should have a big effort in graphics.

Symphonia didn't push the cube, and this sequel could be easily done on it just the same; Wii is so much powerful than that.

Developers shouldn't think it's okay.

That, and the fact that it doesn't have a real-time World Map (which is a huge letdown, I have to agree). But you still don't know if the battle system is fun to play with, if the controls are good, if the story is well-planned and interesting, if the new characters are likeable...

I think the game will still be good mind you, I just think they didn't go the extra mile in most things. The absent world map is just one of those things.

What I'm trying to say is, instead of treating KoR as a crappy excuse for a Tales game even before it's release, why don't you just wait and see what happens? Who knows, maybe it surprises you.

In that case I prefer to be negativist, looking at Vesperia and think that I'd rather have that.

If I'm wrong... I'll be happy, to be honest.

to tell the truth, I'd probably play both (if I had the chance, of course) and only then I would choose. I wouldn't stick with Vesperia only because it's a Team Symphonia game (I find Team Symphonia waaaay overrated, BTW), and I really don't care about which has better graphics.

Well, me too, there's no way I'd pass on a Tales game.

Well, perhaps I'd passed on Tales of the Tempest had I known sooner. But I don't expect KoR to be Tempest 2.

I liked all the revealed characters so far. And this makes me even more interested in KoR than in Vesperia... though I also liked Vesperia's designs more than I did for other Fujishima works.Too bad it doesn't seem like  the new character designer for KoR will do something about the "spiky hair syndrome" all the main characters in ToS suffered from.

I didn't like Vesperia designs that much ^^'

This said I liked Abyss ones; but it's hard at telling that they're solely fujishima designs, I mean, before he does them the character is probably outlined already, regarding traits personalities and all, so perhaps what I liked more if their characteristics, or something (I don't know if I'm explaining good enough)

Both are products of "consumer/market demand".

How is there more demand for a Tales game on X360 than it is on the Wii?

But I guess one team feel more comfortable with doing a title for platform A while the other team feel like they'd be working much better and creating a better product if they worked on platform B.

Except this team B was created for doing the project, as leftovers.

Also, I don't think they have that much liberty, back with Symphonia Nintendo moneyhatted it through a deal, iirc, but other than that, and even regarding ToS PS2 port... Namco ordered and it was done, simple.

They've milked Tales too much and in a fast rate to say that the teams had a choice in the matter.

I think, if anything Namco decided to do it for X360, not the team; of course I might be mistaken, but... I they couldn't go ahead without Namco allowing it

What makes you think the Wii title is getting less effort? Is it the recycling of assets? That could mean they have more resources and time on making additional new assets, better executed storytelling, more flawless game system in general and in overall an all together more well put together package.  As for the chances of this most likely not being a full Team Symphonia title (unlike Vesperia that seems to be leaning more in that direction), re-read the answer I gave to the previous quote.

The fact that their best team is working on some other game so they got a improvised one, the fact that they're recycling stuff, the fact that the game doesn't even have detailed shadows on the characters, or graphics that take advantage of the hardware, the fact that it lacks a world map... I could go on.

I think without a doubt that Wii is getting less effort. Now, the story can still be good, but they're the ones with less resources and with the lowest standard to meet, not Vesperia.

regarding your previous quote what you meant to keep from your previous quote is that this game didn't need fujishima's work, right?

That might be so, but like said, it's not only that, it's a conjunction of all of them.

[Cless Aileron]

Now I got to put a few things in here.  Even though I'm been keeping a self-ban on myself on talking about Tales of the Abyss anywhere except my blog until I completed my second playthrough, I may need to bring that game up for the sake of talking about it.

First of all, the thing about Fujishima or the lack of his involvement.  I have to say, I really agree with Cyllya for the most part in regards to Fujishima.  People here know it that I'm more of a fan of Mutsumi Inomata anyway.  Even then, the only character designs Fujishima did for the series that I liked was Tales of Phantasia.  His Tales of Symphonia stuff were okay but I wouldn't go crazy over them.  Tales of the Abyss, well, I didn't like the art for it so it's safe to say that I didn't like the character designs for that game too.  Pretty much, Fujishima's involvement is more of a selling point for the major releases, since he has more of a name in anime/manga to the western audience ("Thank you, Belldandy!"), something Inomata doesn't have.  Then again, Fujishima's name didn't really help sell Tales of the Abyss in North America.

Point:  Fujishima's involvement (or lack of) isn't such a big deal, even for this Tales of Symphonia sequel.  If he was involved, fine.  If he isn't, fine.

Next, the idea of how much effort in there, like graphics.  Once again, bring up Tales of the Abyss.  The graphics on Abyss...the only way I can put it nicely is that the graphics were mediocre at best (and that's me trying to be nice about it).  Seeing the graphics for the Tales of Symphonia sequel was a relief.  Sure, not the best you'll see but really, it's much better than what Abyss did.  Theoretically, I can say they didn't put a lot of effort on...*gasp* a main Tales installment.  However, I'm not going there...at least for now, since I'm still doing that second playthrough.

Anyway, if Sakaguchi can move 100-200k units of NEW IP RPGs on the 360, who says they can't duplicate or exceed those numbers with a popular, established franchise?

I agree with that idea.  Heck, it got me thinking about something.

Okay, so the Xbox 360 isn't the big thing like in North America.  That, I'm not going to try to argue.  Now, I've read that there are some Japanese game companies that's liking the idea of developing for the western market in mind/getting some shares of the western market.  I know Capcom is one of them, since that's what they had in mind when developing Lost Planet.

What I'm getting is...if Tales of Vesperia does actually get announced for the Xbox 360 (disregarding the hints that were leaked or any multiplatform plan that might come up), would that mean maybe Namco Bandai might be serious with trying to get to more of the western audience with the game?  Just a thought.

But overall, I still want to hear more about Tales of Vesperia.  However, Tales of Symphonia: Knight of Ratatosk...err....Dawn of a New World is actually looking good.  Now, a spin off game doesn't always mean bad (I mean Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles was actually decent and isn't Mario Kart considered a spin off from the Mario series).  Really, is it because of the bad ones that give the term bad vibes (Soul Calibur Legends, I'm looking at you)?

[Cyllya]

What makes you think the Wii title is getting less effort? Is it the recycling of assets?

It would be very silly to not reuse the 3D art assets they're reusing, considering said assets are meant to depict the exact same thing. If they weren't reusing the assets, they'd be struggling to make them look exactly like the old assets and, unless they failed, get something that looks exactly the same as if they'd saved time and reused old assets.

All the old 3D assets are getting a texture upgrade, even if they don't need it for story purposes. I don't know if they're reusing any other assets, but I'd guess they're reusing some music, which is kind of a Tales tradition.

The only sign I see so far that they're not putting full effort into this is the reusing ToS characters' designs and skit faces, which is pretty tacky, especially in the context of Genis and Presea. (Nintendo Power weirdly said something about ToS's characters being lovingly redesigned by Okumura? O_o I wonder if they actually get new clothes/portraits sometime?) And possibly the town location goof, but it might not be goof.

That or stay on PS3 due to "we've been doing games for sony and we'll stick with it" it would still be more understandable than X360.Sure, but if you had to choose betwen ToS-spin-off and ToV I bet which one you'd chose.

I'm glad nothing's stopping me from getting both (except my wallet, but that'll be reconciled eventually), but if I really had to choose, I'd pick TOSKOR. This is despite the fact that ToV is (presumably) on a console that I wanted anyway, as it has a few other games I want, whereas TOSKOR is on a system that has nothing else I want.

Plus, given Team Symphonia's track record and what we've seen of ToV so far, I figure ToV will basically be ToA with a new plot. Well, mostly a new plot. Okay, okay, prettier graphics and fewer battle system stupidities. But still. Now, I don't usually complain about Tales being too similar, but I think the reason I don't mind some Tales being so similar is because I play the different ones also.

Both games have an FR-LMBS upgrade. ToV has prettier graphics; I'm itching to see ToSKoR's plot for myself. plot > graphics, imo. So ToSKoR wins with me and probably still would even if it were also almost the same thing I'd played like three times already.

Also, there was a quick shot of what appeared to be ToV's world map in the trailer, and if they don't do something major about that, ToSKoR's world map will remain much prettier. ^_^

The fact that their best team is working on some other game so they got a improvised one

They have, what'stheirname... Takumi Miyajima? They have Daigo Okumura. They have enough of Fujishima to get his name on the box. Even though it's not Team Symphonia, I'd be surprised if Eiji Kikuchi isn't on the credits list somewhere. Who else do they need? The 3D modelers who did ToA's ugly graphics? (I suspect some of those guys actually are working on ToSKoR.) The designers who came up with ToA's boring monsters? (Ditto.) The 3D animators who are made partially obsolete by technology and may not be working on ToV for the same reason, at least not with the same tasks? The programmers who gave ToA much longer load times than it needed? The guys who wrote the dialogue you won't even see if you're not going to import it?

Most of these guys were the same ones who did a better job with Symphonia, but it means they won't always do the same quality even though they're the same people.

Now, I loved ToA, but that was because it was a decent (could have been better) upgrade/rehash of the traditional Tales gameplay, and I was very fond of the plot. ToSKoR has the FR-LMBS. ToSKoR has the scenario writer.

I can look at the graphics and think they're really subpar to what they could be though.

I totally agree they're ugly. But that's a stylistic thing. ToA's were the same way, despite being done by beloved Team Symphonia. TOSKOR's appear to be more technologically advanced than ToA's. (They certainly don't push the Wii, but other than ToP-SFC, ToV, and maybe some of the portable games, Tales graphics are never system-pushers.) Plus, according to Nintendo Power, TOSKOR is using motion capture. They were wrong to say it was the first Tales to do so, but it was Team MelFes, not Team Symphonia, who did it before. (Motion capture = "good thing" despite the fact that ToL did it and the fact you can't really describe it as "more effort.")

Though I'm sure ToV is using motion capture also.

When you're referring to the (lack of) detailed shadows on the characters, do you mean the shading on the models themselves or the drop shadows?

How is there more demand for a Tales game on X360 than it is on the Wii?

Well, it's a JRPG. Aren't there more JRPGs on the 360, thus that's what all the JRPG fans have if they only have one of the two? (There's a lot more Wiis sold in both Japan and NA, but to fans of other things, presumably.) But TOSKOR's going for the same crowd ToS was going for, meaning people who either already had the (fortunately cheaper) JRPG-impaired nintendo console for the sake of other genres or were willing to buy one for this game.

Back when the development for Vesperia and ToSKoR started, it would probably be even harder to predict which of the three (two?) possible consoles the JRPG fans would be most numerous on.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

i thought they wouldn't really age much, due to their natures?

[Cyllya]

i thought they wouldn't really age much, due to their natures?

You mean Presea and Genis? No, they should have been aging normally the past two years (even if they don't at other points). And their stats on the official website suggest they indeed did so.

[pedrocasilva]

Fujishima's involvement is more of a selling point for the major releases, since he has more of a name in anime/manga to the western audience ("Thank you, Belldandy!"), something Inomata doesn't have.  Then again, Fujishima's name didn't really help sell Tales of the Abyss in North America.

that's precisely it, it's not exactly a proof of how important this game is for Namco, and using the excuse "he wasn't available" when he clearly was... is bad, a bad choice of words at least.

Next, the idea of how much effort in there, like graphics.  Once again, bring up Tales of the Abyss.  The graphics on Abyss...the only way I can put it nicely is that the graphics were mediocre at best (and that's me trying to be nice about it).  Seeing the graphics for the Tales of Symphonia sequel was a relief.  Sure, not the best you'll see but really, it's much better than what Abyss did.  Theoretically, I can say they didn't put a lot of effort on...*gasp* a main Tales installment.  However, I'm not going there...at least for now, since I'm still doing that second playthrough.

Then again they were perfectly acceptable because it wasn't like they were giving priority to other project and crapping out on that one.

I don't find them bad for PS2 though, just basic.

I agree with that idea.  Heck, it got me thinking about something.

Okay, so the Xbox 360 isn't the big thing like in North America.  That, I'm not going to try to argue.  Now, I've read that there are some Japanese game companies that's liking the idea of developing for the western market in mind/getting some shares of the western market.  I know Capcom is one of them, since that's what they had in mind when developing Lost Planet.

Capcom and Namco are very diferent, and specially the franchises we are comparing. Resident Evil, Devil may Cry and the like make sense on X360. Just as Dead Rising and Lost Planet do; but J-RPG's? nor so much

Capcom was always a western company regarding it's games appeal, Namco isn't; specially regarding Tales series... that means the core public for RE for Capcom is US, the main public for a J-RPG? I'm willing to bet it's not in X360 by any accounts; specially considering that the main world region to whom these games are targeted is Japan (and it's the same for Final Fantasy and others); or are they crapping out Japan?

What I'm getting is...if Tales of Vesperia does actually get announced for the Xbox 360 (disregarding the hints that were leaked or any multiplatform plan that might come up), would that mean maybe Namco Bandai might be serious with trying to get to more of the western audience with the game?  Just a thought.

A good main series effort on the Wii, or even this one could do the same; since Wii is actually selling more in US. This way they're making a main installment that their target public won't play.

But overall, I still want to hear more about Tales of Vesperia.  However, Tales of Symphonia: Knight of Ratatosk...err....Dawn of a New World is actually looking good.  Now, a spin off game doesn't always mean bad (I mean Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles was actually decent and isn't Mario Kart considered a spin off from the Mario series).  Really, is it because of the bad ones that give the term bad vibes (Soul Calibur Legends, I'm looking at you)?

It's not looking Legends kind of bad, but it's looking to be a lazy, improvised sequel to a game that didn't need it.

Resident Evil UC... Who'd prefer that on-rails experience having played RE4 Wii version? even if it's good enough everyone thought how the game could have been a lot better. This game gives off the same vibe.

It would be very silly to not reuse the 3D art assets they're reusing, considering said assets are meant to depict the exact same thing. If they weren't reusing the assets, they'd be struggling to make them look exactly like the old assets and, unless they failed, get something that looks exactly the same as if they'd saved time and reused old assets.

All the old 3D assets are getting a texture upgrade, even if they don't need it for story purposes. I don't know if they're reusing any other assets, but I'd guess they're reusing some music, which is kind of a Tales tradition.

It would only be silly because that's the exact reason why they decided to do a spin-off that took place 3 years after, right? They took the easy route to do a half assed job and milking it, no doubt, fact is... that's not good in my book, it's lazy.

The only sign I see so far that they're not putting full effort into this is the reusing ToS characters' designs and skit faces, which is pretty tacky, especially in the context of Genis and Presea. (Nintendo Power weirdly said something about ToS's characters being lovingly redesigned by Okumura? O_o I wonder if they actually get new clothes/portraits sometime?) And possibly the town location goof, but it might not be goof.

Probably redesigned in the sense that their character models were re-done.

I'm glad nothing's stopping me from getting both (except my wallet, but that'll be reconciled eventually), but if I really had to choose, I'd pick TOSKOR. This is despite the fact that ToV is (presumably) on a console that I wanted anyway, as it has a few other games I want, whereas TOSKOR is on a system that has nothing else I want.

I must say that I don't get the reason to do that. but I accept your opinion.

Plus, given Team Symphonia's track record and what we've seen of ToV so far, I figure ToV will basically be ToA with a new plot. Well, mostly a new plot. Okay, okay, prettier graphics and fewer battle system stupidities. But still. Now, I don't usually complain about Tales being too similar, but I think the reason I don't mind some Tales being so similar is because I play the different ones also.

At least it's not Tales of the Abyss recycled assets.

Both games have an FR-LMBS upgrade. ToV has prettier graphics; I'm itching to see ToSKoR's plot for myself. plot > graphics, imo. So ToSKoR wins with me and probably still would even if it were also almost the same thing I'd played like three times already.

That doesn't change the fact that they didn't do a effort in graphics, yet they're doing on vesperia.

Is it because the Wii is weak? no, there's plenty of juice to run even Vesperia in there.

What I'm saying is... they should at least hit some milestones for it to be acceptable next to Vesperia

Also, there was a quick shot of what appeared to be ToV's world map in the trailer, and if they don't do something major about that, ToSKoR's world map will remain much prettier. ^_^
They have, what'stheirname... Takumi Miyajima? They have Daigo Okumura. They have enough of Fujishima to get his name on the box. Even though it's not Team Symphonia, I'd be surprised if Eiji Kikuchi isn't on the credits list somewhere. Who else do they need? The 3D modelers who did ToA's ugly graphics? (I suspect some of those guys actually are working on ToSKoR.) The designers who came up with ToA's boring monsters? (Ditto.) The 3D animators who are made partially obsolete by technology and may not be working on ToV for the same reason, at least not with the same tasks? The programmers who gave ToA much longer load times than it needed? The guys who wrote the dialogue you won't even see if you're not going to import it?

Most of these guys were the same ones who did a better job with Symphonia, but it means they won't always do the same quality even though they're the same people.

Now, I loved ToA, but that was because it was a decent (could have been better) upgrade/rehash of the traditional Tales gameplay, and I was very fond of the plot. ToSKoR has the FR-LMBS. ToSKoR has the scenario writer.
I totally agree they're ugly. But that's a stylistic thing. ToA's were the same way, despite being done by beloved Team Symphonia. TOSKOR's appear to be more technologically advanced than ToA's. (They certainly don't push the Wii, but other than ToP-SFC, ToV, and maybe some of the portable games, Tales graphics are never system-pushers.) Plus, according to Nintendo Power, TOSKOR is using motion capture. They were wrong to say it was the first Tales to do so, but it was Team MelFes, not Team Symphonia, who did it before. (Motion capture = "good thing" despite the fact that ToL did it and the fact you can't really describe it as "more effort.")

Though I'm sure ToV is using motion capture also.

So... we got the bad apples? taking the ToS argumentist aside.

This said the interview said mostly new guys in there, and they're also re-using at least some of the Tales of the Abyss monsters.

Tales games can be beautiful for the hardware nonetheless, Symphonia was a pretty game for the year it came off, even Abyss is a beautiful game. This one is looking to be Symphonia 1.1 with small improvements.

I wouldn't say Vesperia pushes X360 either, but it looks good nonetheless; at least they made a goal to improve the graphics.

Yes, Motion Capture is a plus, but can also be atributed to Tales Studio now being internal to Namco (it wasn't before) Namco has had Motion Capture instalations for years, but Tales Studio never used it, and as we know Team Melfes was internal to Namco (I wonder where those guys are now)

What I'm saying is that this one doesn't show enough effort. Even if I agree it would be a worse game if Wii wasn't leading, but it's still a half hearted attempt.

When you're referring to the (lack of) detailed shadows on the characters, do you mean the shading on the models themselves or the drop shadows?

ground shadows, I mean... textured circles? Mario 64 says hi.

Self Shadowing would be a perfectly possible bonus, but I'm not even going there. I'd never expect that from a tales game.

Well, it's a JRPG. Aren't there more JRPGs on the 360, thus that's what all the JRPG fans have if they only have one of the two? (There's a lot more Wiis sold in both Japan and NA, but to fans of other things, presumably.) But TOSKOR's going for the same crowd ToS was going for, meaning people who either already had the (fortunately cheaper) JRPG-impaired nintendo console for the sake of other genres or were willing to buy one for this game.

X360 still has a slight lead in US I think.

Still, looking at RPG sales in US I'd say X360 is not that big of a market in that area. I hope Wii fares better.

Back when the development for Vesperia and ToSKoR started, it would probably be even harder to predict which of the three (two?) possible consoles the JRPG fans would be most numerous on.

I agree, but that's just a justification why I am getting the shorter end of the stick and I still don't get how they'd bet on the X360 (bet on the PS3 back then, I can understand, but not X360; other than moneyhats)


All this said, I'm not happy with this game but I'm certainly not as pissed as I was, taking it all out on some forums can do wonders.

[Datschge]

This thread -> can of worms = opened

The character designer is worthless besides as a selling point. Except for a couple arts and illustrations the so called character designers are never involved in the actual games. And in case of Fujishima I'm not even sure he ever did any actually original character designs instead just redesigns after the fact. ToP SFC had him jump in as a selling point when the game was already done, ToS had generic character art with a chibi approach very different from his usual ones for in-game character designs, and TotA had the majority of characters actually designed by Daigo Okumura. So Fujishima limited involvement is most likely only an indication that he's very expensive as a celebrity. How anyone can think people like such are important to get a good game is beyond me, so I'm not even sure why it's constantly being discussed (besides serving a continuous slapping in the face to all the art staffs doing the actual work).

Like many publishers Namco usually has a couple of producer/director/worthless placeholder people sticking to specific development teams and acting as public "posterboy". In ToS-R's case it's clearly Teruaki Konishi. His previous Tales "involvements" were as director for Tempest and as co-producer for ND3. Tales Studio is confirmed to have some kind of direct involvement since they list ToS-R as one of their work on their site. In Tempest Tales Studio had its sound staff as well as two directors called Chikako Kiyota and Daisuke Yamasita be involved, both of which have no single previous Tales credits to their name, so I'm pretty sure those are trainees and may be working on ToS-R next. Dimps being involved is only me playing the devil's advocate, but I wouldn't be surprised it to turn out true as there aren't really that many no-name developers to outsource development to, and Tales Studio surely doesn't do all the development itself considering their staff size never significantly changed in the past years. (I expected an increase last year to cope with the console generation switch, but it never happened.)

Tales Studio is still external. Internal implies that people can be freely moved between different groups. Tales Studio is still an external company, just majorly (94%) owned by Bandai Namco. (For comparison according to the news the recent buy-out of Banpresto should lead to its development staff be absorbed by Namco Bandai Games Inc. Namco Tales Studio Ltd. is not absorbed so far, and I'm not even sure it can be legally absorbed as long as 6% of the shares are still in external hands.)

Vesperia has Tales Studio credited as developer in the trailer, so that and (Namco director for ToS and TotA) Yoshito Higuchi being credited as both director and producer pretty much ensures Team Symphonia working on that in my book.

[pedrocasilva]

I know the studio still exists, but Namco Bandai did buy the majority of the remaining stakes in there, recently. Tales Studio is as theirs now as Monolith is Nintendo's.

They without a doubt enforced their influence by doing so, otherwise why would they buy more of the company?

If they wanted people to come back and forth from there they most likely could, despite it being a "independent entity"; they're Bandai Namco's just the same.

Anyway, I don't know why we're discussing this, it was just a hypothesis on why they use mocap now, and didn't before, or something. They could also have a mocap equiped studio now, just the same.

I don't even know where namco bandai does their mocap and where the various studios are located; for example in Capcom's case, despite Clover being kinda "separate" to the company (although wholly owned) their headquarters in a building floor just above where other capcom teams were installed, there was personnel going back and forth in there and all; what I'm saying is... their mocap resources might be shared with Namco Bandai or something (or done in a far away place, too); and if, Tales Studio HQ were close to other Namco teams, that could also explain how the personel didn't increase without necessarily increase officially.

Of course this is total bogus, but they're just more possible reasons.

Your hypothesis on being outsourced is also viable; but on Dimps account... I don't really want them making the game, considering the Tempest fiasco, neither do I like the sound of "previously uncredited trainees"; if anything doesn't gave me the confidence I'd had in the title had it been Team Symphonia behind it.

And that Teruaki Konishi boy has a lame curriculum, I don't want him. On curiousity did Tales Studio post in their site Tales of the Tempest as their own work? (given that you're judging their involvement in ToS:KoR for it)

I must say that if they said now that it is outsourced I'd be pretty pissed at them for it too, it just doesn't inspire me confidence. (you might be right though)

[gyozilla]

The '90s called, they want Fujishima back. (They can keep him)

They might as well have done you a favor by not using him. Manga-ka is for PR and tapping into fanbases. Enjoy the game for what it'll be and stop worrying about which end of the stick you're getting. Cynically, it's Tales, you're getting shafted somehow either way. You're gonna run into so many brick walls in life if you keep getting stuck on how unfair things are.

No money set aside to pay Fujishima might = more for rest of the project.

Is it too much to ask for effort and ambitious projects?

They took the easy route to do a half assed job and milking it, no doubt, fact is... that's not good in my book, it's lazy.

This is Namco?

I can look at the graphics and think they're really subpar to what they could be though.

Were you around for ToL's pre-release backdrops? *shudder*

[Datschge]

I know the studio still exists, but Namco Bandai did buy the majority of the remaining stakes in there, recently. Tales Studio is as theirs now as Monolith is Nintendo's.

Correct. And just like Bandai Namco with Tales Studio Nintendo can't absorb Monolith since Bandai Namco and the founders of Monolith still own shares.

If they wanted people to come back and forth from there they most likely could, despite it being a "independent entity"; they're Bandai Namco's just the same.

Completely incorrect. Separately incorporated companies have their own financial data and fiscal responsibilities, meaning assets staff can't be moved freely in and out. This is especially true for incorporated companies with more than one shareholder. And Namco Tales Studio Ltd. and Monolith Software Inc. both are incorporated companies with more than one shareholder. Banpresto currently still is an incorporated company, but Bandai Namco is the sole shareholder so they are free to dissolve the company, which is why I picked it as an example before.

(...) Tales Studio HQ were close to other Namco teams, that could also explain how the personel didn't increase without necessarily increase officially.

Here's Namco Tales Studio Ltd.'s location, Namco Bandai Games Inc.'s HQ is about 10 miles southward. That's by far not as close as in Clover's case (which is a bad comparison anyway since Tales Studio used to be unrelated to Namco before its renaming while Clover was just a part of Capcom incorporated as a fully owned separate company, and since Clover was fully owned it was easy for Capcom to dissolve it again once it wasn't needed anymore).

On curiousity did Tales Studio post in their site Tales of the Tempest as their own work? (given that you're judging their involvement in ToS:KoR for it)

Of course they did.

[Cless]

So, apparently this is being sent to die coming out in the fall. I don't know why they insist on releasing these alongside the deluge of monster titles. Releasing ToS in the summer with little competition did not hurt that game at all.

[Goshi]

They want to challenge Smash Bros Brawl.

[Llewellyen]

http://img530.imageshack....ofsymphoniadawnoftks3.jpg

...please don't tell me this is final.

[Yetika]

It kinda' looks as if they just slapped a green block over the Japanese text in a lousy PhotoShop job.

[Carnivol]

It kinda' looks as if they just slapped a green block over the Japanese text in a lousy PhotoShop job.

Ahah, you're absolutely right. It does look like that.

[Llewellyen]

Oh, that's good.
I can pass on D. Fang.