I hate the formulaic nature of RPGs :(

[GummySnake]

.....Hey lets hope this one will have a newish main character to say the least. Lets see what types they've had so far.

A strapping young swordsman
A less than smart strapping young swordsman
A Hungry all the time strapping young swordsman
A strapping young swordsman who chases after girls he thinks are pretty.
A less than smart strapping young swordsman.
A very uncaringly mean strapping young swordsman.
A strapping young grappler who has weird fetishes.
A uncaring smart strapping young swordsman.
A strapping young swordsman who thinks he has nothing special.
A strapping young swordsman again.
What appears to be a very angry character, who will most likely be strapping, young, a swordsman, and be very sarcastic.

Thats them at their core. Add a few things here and there and you have the main characters. We've only seen these types of characters about a million other times in a million different other animes right? Shamo FTW. At least thats different in a way.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

cute and pink? but what's not to like about the xbox 360? it's curvy, it's white, it has some green (which seems fairly gender-neutral)...

also, i think you're oversimplifying things with the main character bit. i agree we have too many stupid, sheltered, indifferent, and/or over-emotional mains, but that's about it. cless was actually relatively unique, as tales mains go, now that i think about it. not sure why there aren't more mains like him, or guy or jade, or whatnot.

[GummySnake]

No I just stated them at their core of a person. After you give them a core, thats when you add on all their other features. Cless wanted revenge on Dhaos. Not original.


Possible Spoilers Below


Eternal Sonata was original in the fact that
A) It was in the dream of someone who was a REAL person, three hours before he died.
B) The Main Character (Chopin) doesn't end up with some dame, and he lives happily ever after.
C) The main character is not the leader of the party. He just goes with the flow.
D) The Main Character is also the last boss of the game.
E) The entire game the main character's thoughts and past happenings is what shapes the world they're in.
F) There are more but I'm way too tired to say anything right now.

lol I just started thinking and I came with the question, how long do you think character's relationships last when the game is over??? They could be like a normal couple and end it and divorce and a whole "I'm not the father" situations could come up. lmao like if the main character leaves her for some other hotter dame and they have to go to the people's court and stuff like that. lmao.  Have a good day.

[Cless Aileron]

Look, if you're looking for originality in an RPG, you're looking in the wrong region.  Go look into western RPGs instead.  At least there's stuff about making choices and even being evil.

Besides, Eternal Sonata isn't so original because it's still talking about the same "life and death" stuff we see so much before.  Just so you know, that link to a review.  My point wasn't about if Eternal Sonata was good or not, my point was that even with an interesting/promising premise, it doesn't mean it's going to come out good.

Look, I'm just hating your preaching.  You know what?  I bet people were more concern about playing the latest cookie cutter Zelda known as Twilight Princess rather than playing Okami because it's frickin' Zelda.  Oh wait!  You mean Zelda is still original?  It's still the same explore the dungeon format and the story is still about saving some princess.  I'm sorry, but preaching about originality and shoving it in our face isn't going to make people buy more original games.  Not to mention, some games you claim original aren't that original, like Zelda.

Look, can you just chill out and stop your preaching about originality?  It's hard for me to drop the subject when you're still preaching about it.

All I'm saying is..."Okay, it's unoriginal.  So what?  I'll know when I should care."

[GummySnake]

Wow I'd never seen someone over react to what I say more than what I just saw. Come on man chill out. I'm not preaching, I'm stating what I think of the matter. I'm not telling you guys anything other than the fact that I need a new game. I never said everything was original in Eternal Sonata I just said that it's got much more original factors.

Not to mention, some games you claim original isn't that original, like Zelda.

Aren't.

You want me to stop talking about how I feel on the matter? Fine, thats all you had to say. Didn't have to get so angry 'bout it. Jeez.

[Cless Aileron]

Sorry man.  It's just the tone that got to me since it came off as preachy for me.  It just sounded too much like "Support original games only."  I'm just saying that next time, watch the tone, okay.

Oh yeah, thanks for pointing that mistake out.  I'm usually uptight about my own topic and I was in annoyance mode that I overlooked it.

[GummySnake]

Hmmmm, I dont know what you mean by tone, but I'll watch how I say things if thats what you most likely meant. I'm not saying I dont like the games, but I just need a new story, and a lot of RPG's aren't really getting me what I need. And I hate reading books. lmao.

Tales of's have one of my favorite types of battles and side quests. AND the best part is that RPG's always have snowy area's, and they usually look really nice (I liked Symphonia's,). My main thing is I need a new story. Or the same story is cool as long as it's done in a madd good and kinda different way. They got lots of those, that kind of cancel it out.

But hey this coming from me, a person whose favorite games consist of Silent Hill, Half Life, Splinter Cell/Metal Gear Solid, The Legend of Zeldas, and a few random other games. lol.

[Kogahazan]

And I hate reading books.

Learn to like'em =p

In seriousness, I think it's just that lately you've been saying what you think about the matter a lot. I don't really find it preachy but I feel your posts are starting to become a broken record. You're really talking to the wrong people if you want to talk about originality in storylines.

I feel that as time goes on, it becomes exponentially difficult to create an original story in a RPG or anything for that matter. When you put it in such simplest terms, using the concept of cores you introduced, original stories become very difficult to imagine these days. To truly create an original thing, a core has to be changed or a new one needs to be created. However, that task is not easily done. Our preconceived notions of these cores are hard ground to the point that it is difficult to get a story that changes a core or creates a new one.

If you look at anything from video games to movies, television, and books, almost all stories can be grouped into genres. There is variation within each genre but that's to be expected; the point of a genre is to be a wide-arching classification. Stripping every individual story in existence down, you can usually find a genre to put it in. If you want to experience an original story, you need to be more receiving of what's out there to avoid disappointment. If you can't do that, then you're just being difficult.

[gyozilla]

I don't get comments about mature themes and unattainable expectations. Like was slavery not serious enough or something? Not dark and brooding enough? The bright colors and teenage charas not doing it for ya? If it's the feel/presentation that needs more maturity, hasn't Tales gradually been trying to please people about that for a while now? Why do you think ToA looks the way it does?

People expect Tales to have plots and charas outside the box. This series is bound by the classic/tradition/wholesome-family genre. Doesn't this series have a slightly younger target demo.? It's gonna have young know-nothings going on a journey, saving the world and learning something about themselves in the process. This is the formula. You're crazy if you expect stuff it can't provide, and then it turns into sad disappointment. Sometimes we get something totally new and original, most times we don't. You can wish and hope for it, but we hear these all the time.

Niu: "Playing Tales for story is like playing Summon Night for gameplay."
That's the way Tales is, man. I wish Tales stories are more outside the box too, but this is the genre at its core. You play it knowing that this is pretty much what you'll get.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

you hate reading books? personally, i feel like i haven't been reading enough good books recently... i think it sharpens the mind and such, and is in a way more interactive than playing a video game is.

and despite that being the formula, i think it wouldn't kill to have somewhat older and more mature characters. i don't necessarily even mean particularly mature... around 20, maybe even 25, would do just fine. it's just that it's really awkward to see adults entrusting the future to a bunch of 15 years olds, or whatever. at least having an older adviser of sorts on the team would help, even if the main hero and heroine are basically just kids (perhaps with a special power, necessitating that they be the ones to do it).

actually, i think a lot of tales have had young adults as their main characters... ToD2 and ToT come to mind as exceptions. but ToS and ToA feel like they have young mains, though, because lloyd is an idiot, colette is a ditz (and only 16), genis is 12, luke is clueless (and later a whiny brat), asch has an IQ approaching single digits, and natalia is portrayed as highly gullible.

[Furen]

When playing ToS I was actually suprised about the turn of events by the time it got over to tethe'alla. I thought it was original and fun because I thought it would end right at the tower.

Of course they have to make the main characters all good and stuff, its just the same as some good action movies. the end result will always be pretty much the same, its the journey with the quirks and twists I think gamers should focus on.

and I really believe games get all the better if they have more than one part to them (like a sequel to follow. which ToS is now getting Im happy to hear!)

Who writes the stories for videogames anyways? maybe they should make some book into a game. That'd be fun to see.

[gyozilla]

i think it wouldn't kill to have somewhat older and more mature characters.

That's really not the Tales bible, right? :p  But Judas, Kratos/Refill/Zel/Regal, practically every ToR chara, Will/Chloe, Jade/Van... I'm actually more annoyed that they ARE cramming in older charas for the purpose of being teacher-advisors to preach/coddle the rest of the young'ns. It makes entrusting the fate of the world to kids even more ridiculous. Realistically, the experienced will lead and tell the kids to go home. Worst off, the older guys hide some super secret past that ties in with the fate of the world; its exposition is worth 10-30mins but is milked for half of the game. I rather they change it up with a full/mostly older chara team but that's unlikely. I think some of us regulars have just been out growing Tales, and as long time fans we're damned frustrated that the formula leaves us wanting more stimulation (ie we're maturing but the plots aren't keeping up) :p

[GummySnake]

I thought we were gone with what I was saying. I dont read books, because I'm busy. I have no time. You can still make an original game these days, but it When I say original I'm not saying 100 percent. Final Fantasy 7 was original but at it's core it was a "Save the world" story. If we had more like those then it would be cool (And I mean change it up games. It's impossible to make it 100 percent original unless it's the first of it's kind).

I'm just not liking Tale's of's take on the matter, cause it's always about a group of people/one person whose going to do something that they find is right when its wrong. And I would have like to see some books into games. Or Rather some authors writing for games.

Okay we are DONE with what MY thoughts on these games are. People dont like to hear it so I'm not gonna say it. Jeez, last time I say anything like that.

[bungiefan]

You don't have time to read books, yet you have time to play games...? RPGs take way longer than books, even without being able to read at 600 WPM for a book.

I play RPGs for story because they at least take a while. I can breeze through an entire series of books (like The Wheel of Time) in about 2-3 weeks. I go through books so fast it sometimes gets annoying when I have to wait for another book in a series to be released.

[GummySnake]

No The Games have been beaten Gradually, like the books I've read. They're done gradually.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

it's no contest. a book is finished in a few hours, maybe 3-5. an RPG is finished in tens of hours, probably 20-60. or you have RPGs with horrific load times, and you're still not done even 112 hours in (Tales of the Abyss). or if you get obsessive, you can sink hundreds of hours into them. or months. (i know one guy that, as of a few years ago, had 75 days logged on his FF11 account.)