Finally beat Dawn of the New World (spoilers)

[Cyllya]

I have this to say:

OMFG THAT WAS HOLY FRIKKEN AWESOME OIWUEHTIUQ@H$!#U$(!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!      

*ahem*

I was getting pessimistic about the plot when I saw the world map combination was kind of wonky (Palmacosta location, etc), but the writers did their homework.

Here's the ToP/ToS plot holes that were fixed in this game:

- Tree on Derris-Kharlan: The Kharlan Tree from ToS was originally from DK, and ToS never mentioned any other Tree still on DK. But ToS2 reveals that when the Kharlan Tree was moved to Aselia, the elves moved a cutting off it back to DK--because, of course, DK needs a tree for mana. So DK and Aselia both had a Giant Kharlan Tree. (And the reason given for why they didn't just get a Great Seed from DK's tree to replace Aselia's failing tree: DK's was still too small. This is further evidence that harvesting a Great Seed from a Tree won't hurt it.) In the process, they prove DK does need a mana tree to survive (ToS gave the opposite impression) and mention that DK's Kharlan Tree has a Spirit of its own. Allusion to Norn?! (Though the "guardian" and "Spirit" of the tree aren't necessarily the same, and I'm still not convinced Norn is a Spirit.)

- Importance of Mana: Ratatosk "rewrites" the world so that living things do not need mana to survive. This only applies to Aselia. Spirits still need mana to exist in the world because they aren't native to it. So that explains why mana is important for all life on Aselia in ToS but only important for Spirits and magic in ToP/ND1. I think that also explains why Dhaos kept passing out from mana deprivation in Katararezaru Rekishi. He's from DK, so he still needs mana.

Speaking of KataReki, ToS2 mentioned mana being poison to demons. I believe KataReki says that but ToP and ND1 never do (although the fact is apparently important to ToP's plot). Gah, I need to finish that book. ;_;

Hmm, but KataReki's narration mentions plants need mana to grow.

Another thing I liked about this game's plot was that they had a side quest in which you picked who went on a journey with Lloyd after ToS (so the game fits with any ending but Kratos's). If you pick any of the girl's, he's explicitly in a romantic relationship when her. ^_^

Yuan went through a pretty sudden change in demeanor. O_o I guess that kinda makes sense.

I forgot what I was going to say, so I'll just add that this was way better than Vesperia. ^_^ *ducks bricks*

[Kajitani-Eizan]

what, really? presea and raine, too?

[Team Rocket Elite]

Yes Presea and Raine too.

[Cless Aileron]

Before I start...

*grabs Captain America's shield and charges toward the bricks and anyone throwing them*

While I personally wouldn't put Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World over Tales of Vesperia, I really feel it gets more bashing than it deserves (Yeah, I didn't find it that bad, it's just aspects being unpolished taking it down).

As for the plot connections, while playing it, I did get the feeling the story might have break the connections between Tales of Phantasia and Tales of Symphonia.  However, while I didn't go all university professor on aspects of the plot, I did sense they at least didn't create any plot holes in regards to keeping Symphonia and Phantasia connected while playing it.  After reading your analysis, that hunch of mine was valid.

Someone beat me to it but:

what, really? presea and raine, too?

Yes.  Yes.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

o wow, haha. lloyd, you smooth sonofa. "it's not like what you think!! she's much older than she looks, i swear!"

it doesn't seem like the voice acting is anywhere near as good as ToV's. still, it looks pretty good overall.

i, uh, would kind of need to finish playing ToS first though (need a GC...), not to mention get a wii. blah.

[Craymel]

uh, would kind of need to finish playing ToS first though (need a GC...), not to mention get a wii. blah.
[/quote

the wii is backwards compatible by the way. Those scenes kinda creeped me out

[throughhim413]

Whoa, it's Cyllya. Long time no see.

Unfortunately, I don't share your love for KoR. Or rather, I don't think I even like it enough to finish it. The game felt like a chore to me, battles weren't fun and I constantly felt underleveled at boss fights. The exact same thing happened to me while playing Tales of Hearts - I just got tired of going though the motions in what felt like a wholly unbalanced game. Despite the fact that I would love to see all of the plot goodness, KoR is one of my least favorite games in the series.

[Cless]

Whoa, it's Cyllya. Long time no see.

Unfortunately, I don't share your love for KoR. Or rather, I don't think I even like it enough to finish it. The game felt like a chore to me, battles weren't fun and I constantly felt underleveled at boss fights. The exact same thing happened to me while playing Tales of Hearts - I just got tired of going though the motions in what felt like a wholly unbalanced game. Despite the fact that I would love to see all of the plot goodness, KoR is one of my least favorite games in the series.

If anything, the game gets kinda stupidly easy after awhile. The beginning IS a little rough, though. That Wolf you get in the first dungeon will seriously carry you through the entire game. It gains levels fast and can eventually evolve into a ridiculously powerful Fenrir. I also recruited a bear from the tower of mana, which also gets ridiculous.  I pretty much stuck with them and the two main characters for the rest of the game, and it worked out. Thankfully, because the monster raising system in the game seriously sucks.

In the end, I wouldn't say it was a terrible game, but it's certainly nowhere near my top favorites in the series. It's nice to revisit the old characters, and learn more about the Aselia universe, even if it seems to retcon some things. Well, I also liked Marta, and perhaps Tenebrae. It has little else going for it. They should've spent another year on development to evolve it into a real Tales of Symphonia 2 (which I still refuse to refer to it as), IMO.

Lloyd sounded WAY TOO DAMN INTELLIGENT in some scenes. It freaked me out, bad. But then he kinda turns back into an idiot when everyone rejoins.

[throughhim413]

Well, maybe I'll give it another chance at some point. Basically my whole reason for buying it was wanting to know more about the Aselian timeline, so if it gets easier, try to stick it out.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

The exact same thing happened to me while playing Tales of Hearts - I just got tired of going though the motions in what felt like a wholly unbalanced game.

out of curiosity, how far did you get? i think i sailed for the first time and retrieved the second spirune, or whatever, and am now around that hot springs town. the bosses so far have been fairly nuts (and i'm playing on normal), but still very satisfying. i definitely remember almost getting wiped out a few times, only to be saved by having a fully red EG bar and spamming shing's magical neverending combos until hisui can patch everyone up with first aid.

[ForceCube]

out of curiosity, how far did you get? i think i sailed for the first time and retrieved the second spirune, or whatever, and am now around that hot springs town. the bosses so far have been fairly nuts (and i'm playing on normal), but still very satisfying. i definitely remember almost getting wiped out a few times, only to be saved by having a fully red EG bar and spamming shing's magical neverending combos until hisui can patch everyone up with first aid.

I'm curious too. I beat the game recently and if there's one thing that surprised me, it's how incredibly well balanced the difficulty is for such a blatantly cheap and broken game (I'm not saying it's a flaw, I _loved_ the broken aspect of battles). There were many fairly difficult boss battles despite the huge advantage the never-ending combos gave me, and none of the bosses (at least that I can remember) were laughably easy, except for the first few.

It's quite a feat for a game that lets you tokugi-ougi the shit out of enemies to have such a smooth difficulty curve (well, maybe not smooth, but at least one that made sense).

[throughhim413]

I played 35 hours of Hearts. I enjoyed it up until I was about to get Kohaku's last spirune fragment, I guess, but the boss battles had annoyed me ever since the battle with Chalsedony (sp), Peridot, and what's-his-name. It's not the difficulty that bothers me, many difficult games are very rewarding. I just don't find Hearts to be rewarding. The battles were fun at the beginning, but now I just think they're long and annoying.

I could probably do a better job of explaining exactly what I don't like about it, but at the end of the day, Hearts just makes me work too much for what has been a fairly average experience. I liked Kohaku when she first showed up, so having her reduced to Colette a soulless puppet for half the game was rather annoying. I don't really like Kunzite or Beryl and even Innes is pretty meh most of the time. The story has been fairly predictable and even for Tales, really cliche. About 10 hours into the game, I was sure I was going to love it. Sadly, now it just makes me appreciate Innocence all that much more (and I'm not crazy about Innocence).

[ForceCube]

Oh well. I won't even quote you or try to reply to your arguments, as I see your opinion's already formed and won't change no matter what I say. But there's one thing I just can't help but ask... does it mean you have no interest in doing a fan translation anymore?

* ForceCube runs

[throughhim413]

I rarely leave a game unfinished, so it's likely that I'll go back and try to finish it at some point. So I wouldn't say my opinion is set in stone, but I was rather disappointed. Perhaps I just hoped for too much and a little break will do me some good.

And to answer your other question, my interest in translating a game and my interest in playing it are two different things. I still find the game intriguing, even if I didn't like playing it all that much. Of the Tales games remaining, ToH is probably still the most likely candidate for a future project. That could change, of course, but for the time being, that's what I'm thinking. Depends if anything better comes along between now and the time I'm looking to do a new project, really.

And I guess we should try to avoid hijacking Cyllya's thread any further. We can always continue the Hearts discussion in the Hearts thread.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

You boarded Cyllya's thread

but yeah, i'm more curious about the "better than vesperia" part. because so far (just met schwann at baction), it's been great. my main gripes being:
- rather transparent "just along for the ride without any real motive for doing so" thing going on for most of the party's characters
- in a similar vein, too many repetitive scenes of "what should i do"/"i don't want to go back to the castle"/"i need to research blastia but i'll go along with you anyway" to try to explain away why the party isn't splitting up at every turn
- menu system should be much, much better -- less awkward phrasing, reliance on auto-shrinking, forcing you to scroll through a HUEG list of weapons/items to synth to try to find new ones, etc. they should have put all as of yet unsynthed items in one list/at the top of the list, put all weapons with unlearned skills at the top of the equip menu, etc.

other than that it's pretty awesome in every possible regard. how could ToSKoR *possibly* compare?

[Joseph]

forcing you to scroll through a HUEG list of weapons/items to synth to try to find new ones, etc. they should have put all as of yet unsynthed items in one list/at the top of the list, put all weapons with unlearned skills at the top of the equip menu, etc.

Well, the game does allow you to filter out weapons/armor via the bumper buttons. Personally, I think a better solution would be to have different selections of synth items in different shops rather than having a universal selection across all shops.