BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

[UraRenge]

regardless of what the title is, I'm hoping for one thing: that Namco will FINALLY give us a Tales game where one of the playable characters is a ranged fighter with 1 or twin pistols.

I mean, from a Tales game that doesn't blow ass.

[Craymel]

But might be, I dunno. ToSDotNW also doesn't appear to be cell shaded in screenshots but is in-game, fairly light cel shading applied

Where did you see any form of cel shading in tos2? It doesn't even look like there's any form of real light direction anywhere in it.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

regardless of what the title is, I'm hoping for one thing: that Namco will FINALLY give us a Tales game where one of the playable characters is a ranged fighter with 1 or twin pistols.

I mean, from a Tales game that doesn't blow ass.

what? i heard ToI was pretty good.

[UraRenge]

what? i heard ToI was pretty good.

it was Innocence?

Huh, I heard Tempest was the one that gave you a gun.

Well regardless, I'd like a gun-wielder to be on a non-handheld console.

[pedrocasilva]

Where did you see any form of cel shading in tos2? It doesn't even look like there's any form of real light direction anywhere in it.

I have the game, trust me, it has a very light form of cell shading going on in the models, but like you said... the game is just too flat.

it's indescernible from pics, and even in game, it's an outline 20% darker at most, regardless of the ambient.

After looking through like... 50 images and almost giving up like "well I see it, but this shit is so discrete it won't serve as proof as it doesn't come through from screenshots at all"... I found this one:

Notice her ultra low-poly arm in the right side, it clearly has an outline; that kind of very light cel shader can be seen throughout all the game (as far as I played it, that is)

[Kajitani-Eizan]

... the hell? i imagine they wanted to tone down ToS's cel shading, but that's a bit too little, isn't it?

[pedrocasilva]

... the hell? i imagine they wanted to tone down ToS's cel shading, but that's a bit too little, isn't it?

Does the job, but it is certainly not something everyone will notice. Might counter a little how flat everything is though... but doesn't solve the fact that they're flat nonetheless. Hard to explain, but actually works on hand close-ups and stuff that would otherwise just have one color going on by adding a second one but basically doesn't save it, or is percepted as cel shading by the untrained eye, I guess.

Ironically... Metroid Prime 3 has way stronger cell shading going on (which looks awesome) while 99% of the people don't realize it, biggest reason for that being that it is not a cartoony game of sorts and is not aiming to be one.

[Craymel]

It's really making me mad that they put so much effort into making that orb look gorgeous yet the character holding the eye candy looks bland and flat.

EDIT: Not really flat actually. She does look bad though.

[ForceCube]

Guess I'm the only one who thinks she doesn't look that bad at all.

[Craymel]

Guess I'm the only one who thinks she doesn't look that bad at all.

I'm sure you're not the only one.

[pedrocasilva]

Guess I'm the only one who thinks she doesn't look that bad at all.

that's the best pic I've ever seen of the game though. (well and I've seen that part in-game too, happens right at the opening)

The angle and the fact it's a snapshot kinda covers the fact her mouth is bidimentional with only 2 overlaying animation textures while she speaks, and yeah... the models are really, really low poly, and their neck animation and stuff is kinda weird

Bad next to Tales of the Abyss? sure, it isn't, it's Abyss+ (to the point it could run on PS2 just fine providing after Abyss they wanted to improve upon it with a little more optimization), good for the platform and "good enough" for what they should be aiming for? no, more like terrible.

But let's not derail onto ToSDotNW, that's a topic I can't really cope with.

[Craymel]

When ever they move their heads it looks like there heads are gonna snap of their necks. It's awkward and a bit comical. 

[pedrocasilva]

When ever they move their heads it looks like there heads are gonna snap of their necks. It's awkward and a bit comical.

yeah, lol.

It's due to the low polycount, bad modeling and the way they "twist".

Sheena takes the cake though:

Arnold Schwarzenegger's neck!

(but... we really shouldn't head here, I mean, the new tales [this thread] should make up for how ridiculous of an attempt from Namco this one was, or so we hope, for now... so... no point in reminiscing)

[Craymel]

Yeah, I'm going to stop bashing the game here now. Here's to hoping they put more effort into this new one so extremely picky people like me wont complain (it's for the sanity of every one namco).

[Cless Aileron]

I probably shouldn't continue being off topic but I just wanted to throw out a few things out there.  My commentaries that's going to sound a little different (and I mean different).  In fact, it's so different that I need to throw this disclaimer out there.

Disclaimer:  I'm making commentaries about what I observed in relation to this (a combination of certain groups of Nintendo fans, other Tales installments and what others think, and other possible things) and I'm going to talk about it differently (Thinking as them rather than thinking as myself).  Also, there's going to be sarcastic Tales of Legendia bashing to prove a point (In other words, don't take it very seriously since I'm thinking as them and not thinking as myself).  Just try to follow along and try to see what I'm trying to get to.  Oh yeah, if you're going to call me out on anything I say after this, well that's actually what I'm looking for (flaws in what I heard others thinking and getting a clearer picture).
---
Okay, so there's the complaints about how horrible the graphics of Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World is.  Honestly, isn't the gameplay that really matters.  I mean, what's the point of great graphics if the game is horrible?  Let me put it this way.  Katamari Damacy looks horrible but the gameplay is actually great!  Just proving gameplay matters!

However, if we're going to continue talking about graphics in a Tales, shouldn't we talk about how horrible the graphics of Tales of Legendia are?  I mean, that game looks more like a Nintendo 64 game rather than a PS2 game (Yes, I actually heard a comment like that).  At least Tales of the Abyss looks more in place with its graphics since it didn't look like Tales of Legendia.

Even then, how people actually say how horrible the graphics are in Tales of the Abyss?  3 or 4 people?  They either actually thought the graphics are, you know...good, or they don't care because gameplay matters more.  Now let's get back to that then.

Now, Tales of Legendia also failed because of its gameplay.  The battle system was so bare bones, clunky and even shallow.  At least Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World has a battle system with a basis from a much better source.  You know, Tales of the Abyss.  So it's bound to be better than Tales of Legendia (and Tales of Legendia was a mothership title, wasn't it?  There you go!).

Also, Tales of Symphonia still comes off as a fan favorite anyway, so I don't think we're listening to the complaints.

After what I managed to say here, can Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World qualifies as being worse than Tales of Legendia?
---
Okay, I got that weird commentary out of the way.  You know what to do...cross examine my weird commentary!

P.S.  A reminder.  The Tales of Legendia bashing I did was done in a sarcastic tone.  I was belittling it to get a point across and it was mainly satirical.

Oh yeah, I'll probably need a better shot of the new Tales Wii if I want to comment more on it to go along with it.   Finally, I'm not necessarily defending ToS: DotNW.

[Craymel]

Ya know if I liked legendia and abyss I'd probably agree with you're "commentary". I haven't been comparing tos2 to past tales games. I've actually been comparing tos2 to other games (on less capable hardware). I've constantly been trying to justify a purchase of this game too. Really, I haven't  been able to. I'm just getting the vibe that namco is just trying to cash in on the symphonia name. Trust me as a wii only owner it gets annoying looking at the large lazy mini game catalog it has. I've become jaded and cynical.