Abyss and me: My confession.

[Cless Aileron]

I feel like if I don't get this out, it's going to come out at the worst time.  Also, I have no clue if this confession should have been part of the "Subpar Tales game" topic but Tales of the Abyss doesn't seem to fit under that for everyone so here it is.  Now, the whole idea with why I'm doing this stems from the "Now Playing" topic.  I get confronted about why I keep saying I was playing Tales of the Abyss when I'm not even going to talk about it.  Well, to sum it up, "Anything I say about Tales of the Abyss is wrong.  The wrong opinion, just like anything I have said about Tales of Legendia."  Now, I'm going to go into detail about my thing with Abyss, in other words, my confession.

Now, I'm going to see if I can say this without turning into the Angry Video Game Nerd/Angry Nintendo Nerd (if you don't know who I'm talking about, don't worry about it.  Besides, I really doubt I could share it here due to its explicit contents), though I'm not going to guarantee it.

Well, to start off, when info about the game was released, it just looks average to me.  I didn't really expect much from it.

Next off, the day I got the game in the mail, I didn't even feel like playing it until late at night.  Even then, I only played about an hour and ended up not playing it for a few days before picking it up again.  Playing through it, I have thought a few things about it.

The graphics are subpar.  While Tales weren't really about graphics, this one doesn't try to look good.  Yet I'm hearing people say how great the graphics are.  I'm sorry.  I'm not seeing the great graphics here.  Even Tales of Legendia's graphics look better than this.

The music.  Now, I can say that Tales of the Abyss has the weakest soundtrack in the series.  Ever since Tales of Symphonia, I've been seeing Motoi Sakuraba is, and I'm sorry for saying it, an overhyped composer and the soundtrack to Tales of the Abyss is not helping defend him in this case (though to be fair, I like his Valkyrie Profile 2 work so far, so I'm labeling it that his Tales work has been poor as of late).  Honestly, the only good music from Tales of the Abyss was Karma and its variation.  Nothing really stood out otherwise.

As for the story and characters, they bored me.  The story tries to feel deep but fails at it and doesn't feel like it's going anywhere.  Heck, the only time I felt the story got anywhere was near the end.  Considering everyone is raving about how great the story is, I probably expected some sort of Metal Gear Solid-caliber story.  The characters, let's just say Jade was the only character I really liked in the game.  Everyone else made me feel like Arche's broom has more personality than most of the characters in Tales of the Abyss.  I feel like I'm going to quote Ryudo from Grandia II here and I might as well since it's going to describe my feeling about the story and characters here.  "Excuse me.  Am I suppose to give a damn?"

Finally, I get onto the gameplay.  First of all, I had as much trouble fighting the enemies in Tales of the Abyss as I did in Tales of Legendia.  I rarely had any trouble getting through the game.  Yes, I do find Free Run to be a poorly executed mechanic.  It's the only worthwhile thing to do for defense and it's so easy to dodge things (not only that, bait the enemies).  Then I find stupid things about it.  Some of the AD skills.  I have to earn an AD Skill to have one character toss an item onto another?  And this one I actually had to look up how I got it and I was suppose to up their strength?  What a way to hide it because I was fine with my setup until I found this out.  You just made inheriting the AD skills mandatory because of this annoyance.  I also found moving around the world map pretty annoying too.  Different terrains changes the speed of the movement?  Was it really necessary?  It doesn't enhance the experience, it just annoys me.  As for the ship, well, I'm letting the whole, "I have to do a sidequest to get an item to allow me to park the ship on land" thing slide but the whole, "I have to do a sidequest to also get an item to go through different conditions" was annoying.  Even after getting the item, it's still a hassle to go through them.  Back up, then speed through it.  Ugh!

That's pretty much what I have to say on the subject and that's my confession.  I know what you're thinking after all this.  "How dare you pick on Tales of the Abyss, you idiot!"  "Your opinion isn't valid because it's wrong!  You're an idiot!"  "You're an idiot for not seeing that Tales of the Abyss is the greatest Tales ever!"  See why I didn't want to talk about it?  The only reason I'm talking about it now is because it feels like a couple of people were trying to force it out of me and prove how moronic I really am.  At this point, I rather submit myself to Tales of Legendia again than go through Tales of the Abyss again.  I guess, I'm the only damn person in the world that didn't really like Tales of the Abyss and feels more dislike for the game.  Well, the pitchforks are behind you and I'm ready to get what's coming to me.

[Cless]

I have no clue if this confession should have been part of the "Subpar Tales game"

That's just a generalized topic... not an isolated cases topic

Anyway, shrug. It sounds like you didn't want to like it in the first place. That kind of thing sadly tends to instill a bias in some people. While I don't know if it applies to you, some with that attitude only try to look for something's faults rather than its strengths and dwell all over them.

I can honestly say the only thing really giving me trouble with this game is the FOF system. I haven't finished it yet, I stopped for an unknown reason and have yet to pick it back up. That has nothing to do with disliking anything about it though. Still my favorite easily...

[Leroy]

Hey, at least you least you laid out your criticisms point by point in a fairly mature manner.. I'll give props for that at the very least. I had a love/hate thing for Abyss, I actually really enjoyed the game a lot, which I wasn't expecting to for some reason; though there were some things that drove me batty.. mostly the maddening amount of "down-time" in the game (which I've gone over in the old Abyss thread) and the horrible load times. I'll go over each of your points with you.

Graphics: Well, I thought the graphics were good.. but the visual style is bland. Compared to the cell-shading of Symphonia and the water-colored look of Legendia.. Abyss looks a bit flat. But, the character models and the areas are top-notch in my opinion.. I can't see anybody knocking the game's graphics on a technical level.

Music: I've always said the Tales series (except Legendia, of course) has had poor, unmemorable music.. Abyss didn't do anything to pick itself up from this trend either. I might have to agree that Abyss is the weakest, as I can usually take a few songs with me from a Tales game but I can't remember a single piece from Abyss (except the Dragon Buster music.. which.. well, was from Dragon Buster).

Story and Characters: I'll have to fight you a bit on this one. I really, really hate anime.. and I've always had to roll my eyes at the casts in Tales games as they were generally composed of bland, anime-101 stereotypes. Granted, I can generally enjoy the characters through playing the game (except for trash like Mint, Colette and Shirley) and for some reason I really love the whole cast of the Destiny games.. but at the end I always feel like: "Yeah, I've seen that before." I thought Abyss did a fantastic job and creating a cast that didn't feel like they were ripped out of this year's knock-off of Ranma ½, which in turn made the overall story stronger. Okay, so they've already done a plot where there was an outer-covering to the planet in a Tales game.. and boy, if the bad guy who's really a good guy doing bad things for a good reason hasn't been done to death by now, I don't know what has.. but it was just told well.

Gameplay: I liked the AD Skills system, a lot. It made for a lot more fun leveling up then just incremental statistic increases, in my opinion. I think Free Run is poorly executed unless you take it for what it is.. simply a dodging technique. Once you get over the fact that you can't circle an enemy and start attacking it from behind, you'll ease into it. Otherwise, I felt it was a great upgrade to the Symphonia battle system.. it's just that THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OF IT. Seriously, the battles to time ratio in this game is disturbing if you compare it to other games.. and then you realize what you've spent all that time doing instead, it makes it harder to want to replay the game. But I'll agree that the side-quests to increase the ship's mobility functions was poorly done if only because it's never made clear. It's like, you MIGHT catch that you're supposed to do the mushroom forest level and out of the blue, you get the upgrade, totally unrelated to the quest at hand. I had already beaten the game before I went back to do all that stuff and that was only because I was scouring the world map like a madman knowing that there was a hidden Namco town somewhere in there.

[supersonic1453]

I agree about Leroy about the graphics.  It doesn't look bad, just bland.

I also thought the music sucked in this game.  I completely agree with you there.  The only music I remember is Karma, Meaning of Birth (which is Karma in battle music form).  Everlasting Fight and Eternal Mind don't count since they are from previous Tales games.

I liked the story in this game.  It just kept me playing up until I left my copy at my friends house on a New Game + file.  This is also probably my favorite cast of Tales of characters, except Natalia and short haired Luke, whom I consider a completely different character from long haired Luke.

I liked the battle system too.  The AD skills were nice because it made all of the EX skills from Symphonia available to every one.  Yes, having some of the basic functions in there like item throwing was annoying, but the characters did heal themselves so it wasn't that bad.  The Albiore sidequests were annoying.  In fact, most of the sidequests were annoying.

Stop putting yourself down for expressing your opinion.  There's no wrong opinions.  Only wrong facts.  Besides, everyone here seems reasonably well mannered.

[Cless Aileron]

I've been meaning to get back to this but I didn't really have a backbone to stand up to myself so I was worried about what will come of this.  Really, I should remember that this is small place and everyone's more mature than certain places.

Anyway, shrug. It sounds like you didn't want to like it in the first place. That kind of thing sadly tends to instill a bias in some people. While I don't know if it applies to you, some with that attitude only try to look for something's faults rather than its strengths and dwell all over them.

I can honestly say the only thing really giving me trouble with this game is the FOF system. I haven't finished it yet, I stopped for an unknown reason and have yet to pick it back up. That has nothing to do with disliking anything about it though. Still my favorite easily...

You pretty much describe it a bit.  The thing is with me is that there are two things that tends to affect my view.

1.  I have a hard time surpressing myself when it comes to hype.  Well, mainly overhype.  Tales is a pretty obscure series (well, expect for Tales of Symphonia) but in some way, the fans manage to get me to feel that Tales of the Abyss was overhyped with the way they were raving about it.  That could have affected my view into Abyss.  I did hear a few fans go crazy when Gamespot gave Tales of the Abyss a 7.9/10 (Thankfully, it wasn't as full blown as the Zelda fanboys going so crazy over Twilight Princess getting an 8.8/10 (Wii) & 8.9/10 (GCN) on Gamespot).

2.  The critic in me is so harsh.  I try to look into these games with a clear mind before I jump in.  Even with that, my critic mind kicks in, and kicks in even harder if the game got so much hype.  This is also why I can't even accept my own opinion since I'm thinking I'm not doing this critic stuff right.  I also think my insane drive for objectivity (Well, personal objectivity) comes in and goes too far, thinking, "It can't be that good/bad!  Seriously!  Just look at it deeply, dammit!"

These two things really affects my views, overhype particularly since it ends up fueling my critic within me to go harder on the game.  Now, I do wish my mind was clear for Tales of the Abyss but I just couldn't clear it.  What started out as a little, "Eh, looks average" ended up going crazy because so many people were raving about something that looked average at the start and then getting so much hailing and in ways I just feel didn't deserve it (Graphics being one of them).

Also, I'm thinking I should give Abyss another chance.  The only thing is it's going to take me a while before I do since this whole Abyss thing has still been burning in me.

[Azu]

The soundtrack owns.

[supersonic1453]

I dunno.  I found it difficult to remember how anything went in this game.  This wasn't the case in previous Tales games.  I can't remember any of the battle themes in this game except for Meaning of Birth, but that is Karma as battle music, which is a good song.  I still think soundtracks in previous games were much stronger.

[Leroy]

1.  I have a hard time surpressing myself when it comes to hype.  Well, mainly overhype.

It sounds like you want to go against the grain just for the sake of going against the grain. Without trying sounding too crass about it, once you grow up past that you should be able to enjoy games better.. it also helps to stay away from the type of internet sites that overhypes or overcraps games, I'm only on this and one other forum and I only check news sties for game stuff.. it's so much nicer that way. Just play them on your own terms.

[chingi1]

Hey good job in keeping it clean!

[Magicpaint]

I agree, the graphics aren't that great, DQVIII and ToS put TotA to shame.

However what saves it is the art direction, which is inspired and has a nice cohesive feel. Some sights are truly breathtaking. So the visual overall are quite eye pleasing.

I agree about the music slighty. It's generally forgettable and a huge step back from ToL. I think Sakuraba is exhausted. He still hasn't made a better soundtrack than ToP's IMO. But still, the music isn't nasty, it's just 'there' like it was in ToS.

Characters, I can't agree. They're distinct, they have personality, and they go through a bit of development. My main problem is they lack resolve. Towards the end, they sort of feel weak because so many issues were not covered in a satisfying manner. Only Luke was carefully developed and even sometimes it felt forced and unnatural. But since the plot is mainly about Luke, I suppose that doesn't hurt the plot bad.

But again, the plot has problems... some areas are over-emphasised and some areas are barely touched upon, so there's pacing issues here and there. There are some moments that just lack that build up, tense feeling that gives the player the idea that the plot is moving forward. There's a bit of padding and not enough actual progression in some ways, too. The world history is rich though and the overall plot is satisfying enough, but I don't think it's this amazing piece of work many see it as.

As for gameplay. I liked it. Some things like FSC, CC and Free run seem poorly implemented on normal difficulty and the pace at which you learn new skills is unsatisfying at time leading to repetitive battles. But overall, the battles are still intense and fun.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I see where you're coming from in that TotA is far from perfect. But overall, I still enjoyed it and felt it was a great RPG package.

[Cless Aileron]

Well, it looks like it took me some days to get back to this but I just want to say some things.

Well, to start off, I just want to say that I'm not trying to go against the grain for the sake of going against the grain.  Deep inside me, I was hoping that maybe I would be wrong about Tales of the Abyss but I really didn't see it as all that great.  Besides, it's not like one can escape hype.

Also, I figure I should go deeper with why I did not like most of the cast of Abyss all that much.  Jade is being left out since I actually do like him (even though I'll admit things could have been worked on like the rest of the cast).

*Luke.  Well, it's safe to say that Luke at the beginning was annoying and such a brat.  However, I didn't really see much improvement later on.  I find it funny how I was not annoyed with Leon Magnus's angst yet Luke's angst got to me.  How much "I'm an inferior replica!" was needed anyway?  I really don't see how doing this is suppose to be taking responsibility for what he did.  A weird thing is that I also have very personal reasons why I did not like Luke.

*Tear.  I find her the flatest out of all the characters.  I really did not find much development in her.  I'm sorry but a cold woman that actually like cute things doesn't really cut it for me for fleshing her out.

*Anise.  It's hard for me to find her as anything other than a typical hyper little girl.  Other than being a spy, I really have a hard time saying anything else about her.

*Guy.  Well, his whole fear of women was interesting.  Well, I can say he had some nice development, just not enough to be satisfy.

*Natalia.  *thinks hard for this one*  Let's see.  She's a phony and...*continues thinking hard on this one* that's all I've seen.  She just wasn't developed well.

Magicpaint, you really bring up interesting points, even if I still say the characters aren't that great.  You certainly have some great things to say (This is the second time you really impress me, man).  Maybe I'm finding where I ended up making that crazy remark about Arche's broom having more personality than most of the Abyss cast (I'm aware that was pretty crazy).  The development felt poorly done for me.  I also was thinking about how the plot points felt forced also, which is why I thought the story wasn't that great.

It's going to be hard for me to actually play it again since I had a hard time trying to enjoy the game.  To be honest, I really don't see Tales of the Abyss as making up for Tales of Legendia (Yes, I know, I said I liked Tales of Legendia and that I did find it to be a good game but I think it's in my better interest to lie to myself and say it sucks, since it's not okay to say Tales of Legendia is a good game).

Well, at least I chilled about it now, even though I still feel awkward about my opinion on Abyss, it was better that I got this out before it comes out at a bad time.

[supersonic1453]

I liked Luke in the beginning before the Akzeriuth mission.
I liked Guy for no real reason.
Didn't care much for Tear and Anise.
Hated Natalia with a passion.
Jade is awesomeness incarnate.

[blairx06]

I'm sure if you play it again, you'll like it (because you'll be able to throw items at the beginning now lol). And Luke really was an uninspiring hero... he made ME want to commit suicide lol... He kinda reminded me of Eeyore of Winne the Pooh lol... I love the ending however, I wish I knew what Luke's personality was like after freeing Lorelai