ToP Translation Names

[Kajitani-Eizan]

no, i'm not happy, because you're missing a PERIOD!

okay, in all seriousness, i agree with demonfang.

[throughhim413]

Now... I have to say something.  It's one thing to worry over every little detail, which I would be annoyed with too.  Nitpicking as so many have referred to it in such friendly terms.  That's one thing, however, I was under the impression that this forum was for the purpose of getting feedback and working to make the final patch something that's great for everyone.  Now I personally am of the opinion that getting second, third, however many opinions serves to improve something.  *Note: I'm not saying that every comment should in some way influence the final result.*  If you only want positive feedback, that's fine, I'll be sure to remember and only commend you on the great work (which I do feel has been amazing, far beyond anything I could ever accomplish).  I can't reverse engineer the game, I can't translate well enough (or so it would seem) for your purposes, I can't do much of anything.  Which leaves me with an opinion.  I believe that if I examine things more closely then to say 'oh, pretty picture' then I can offer some suggestions that may be helpful in some way shape or form. 

So to Cless, and to anyone else, please understand that I'm not trying to be ungrateful or annoying.  It's quite the opposite in fact.  I have been in awe of what this project has been doing since I first found the site.  I'm just hoping that in some small way I could help to make your great project even better in what tiny ways I can.  If that's not what you feel I'm doing, then ignore me.  I'm not here to try and cause a headache for anyone, so if I am, feel free to ignore me.  But, if you'll allow, I'd love to keep expressing an opinion.  There's a reason that a book goes through an editing process before it's published.  I think I, and everyone else here, is just looking forward to seeing that book in its final form and we want it to be the best we can be.  In the end, it's still your vision, it's still your call.  I'm not asking you to change that vision, I'm just offering suggestions.

/endrant
Sorry about that... 

[Rhapsody]

[Insert image here]

ARE YOU GUYS HAPPY NOW

Personally speaking, I thought Debris Fall was better.

[Cyllya]

ARE YOU GUYS HAPPY NOW

yaaaaaay <3 <3 <3 Debris Fall was like the most Engrish you could possibly get without a misspelling.

[Goshi]

This thread is gold, everyone earlier was complaining that they should change the names of all the spells and now they're saying you don't have to do it now

BTW, I'm glad you decided to use those names afterall, I only mentioned you didn't have to do it so you'd feel bad or something >_>;

[Kyo316]

Actually I'm quite happy that you left the spells alone.....................,


BUT, this is YOUR project, so you don't have to kill yourself over one thing..........


or us for that matter......... >_> <_<

[gyozilla]

If these guys don't like how you're doing your thing, they can start their own localization project.

Cless says the perfectionist in him wants to make the best ToP patch ever. Here's an open forum for this translation. We share opinions on things. So when people bring up concerns, they're nitpicking and better start their own projects? If people have concerns about the President's actions, they should be their own presidents? I'm not even doing what the n00bs do, and I've only made one post. And it wasn't about names, if you guys got what I was trying to say.

Cless, it wasn't about the names themselves. I wouldn't make a post if it was just name nitpicking; I didn't make a peep on a lot of name changes.

The names were examples to point out the standard being used. You can STILL do whatever you want since it's your project (I made sure I said that in the first post), I was only pointing out that you had conflicting reasonings for translating some things. And just because I said something doesn't mean I demand an act on it.

I don't mind if you like Debris Fall more than Rock Mountain because it's a personal opinion. You reasoned that Debris Fall is appropriate because it describes the spell, while Rock Mountain is engrish. I don't deny that; it makes a lot of sense. What I was saying is why didn't that reasoning apply to God's Breath at the time then? (sorta like Cyllya's "If you don't mind 'Debris Fall,' how bad is God('s) Breath or Divine Wind?") God's Breath makes just as much sense for the spell as Debris Fall would for its spell (and imo not as engrish or clumsy). Yes, I know you were on the fence with Judgment, but even after ruling that out, you sounded like you were more open to Divine Wind than God's Breath like the latter one never had a chance in the first place. So what's up with that logic?

Disregarding that I don't mind using Early (I agree that's the intended pun), it's clumsy and engrish for a town name, how come that's ok? It doesn't follow ToP GBA's Arlee either, which I thought would sound MORE like a town name to you than some engrish pun. Debris Fall stayed because it was less engrish to you than Rock Mountain and had ToP GBA continuity, right? But by using Early, you're not following either reason.

Was all this not a legit argument? And it wasn't about the names, I was commenting on the thinking involved. I don't think I was being mean either, just arguing about the issue. I'm treated like I've commited a sin before my point was considered ("oh, he's bitching about names!"). And people would detract with things like "It's YOUR project, do what YOU think is right." I never said you can't! Is there anyone who can distinguish between a criticism and a demand without taking offense? Like at least one person hinted at, I can be a Yes-Man only spamming "Nice screenshots!", but I rather try to be honest about the concerns I have since you strive for a perfect patch (even if you might not like what I say). Sometimes you agree, others you don't. It doesn't mean I hate you for it or respect your work any less, or even that you have to please me. I really intended a discussion, the thing that people do on forums.

[Fluffy]

...I honestly have to say that although I have an opinion on what the names should be, it really seems quite pointless at this point. I mean, really, when we're talking about localization, look at it this way... Here's how "Majinken" was localized in each of the games:

ToP DeJap = Psion Bolt
ToP GBA = Demon Fang
ToD = Missile Sword
Tod2/ToE =Sonic Blade
ToS = Demon Fang
ToL =Demon Fist

The only continuity with those is "Demon Fang" appears twice. That's sad. I don't see any threads about"Why was Majinken localized differently for each game?!" or something like that. No one seems to give half a crap when they play the officially localized game, because they're happy to be playing it in a language they can understand.

And yes, before I start getting attacked, I was, and am, the one who wanted the proper character names. But I think character names are a little different than the names of techs and spells...

As for the issue with "God Breath," it was localized as "Judgement" in both ToP GBA and ToL, so (don't remember if this was mentioned or not)...

And gogs...

Disregarding that I don't mind using Early (I agree that's the intended pun), it's clumsy and engrish for a town name, how come that's ok? It doesn't follow ToP GBA's Arlee either, which I thought would sound MORE like a town name to you than some engrish pun. Debris Fall stayed because it was less engrish to you than Rock Mountain and had ToP GBA continuity, right? But by using Early, you're not following either reason.

Obviously ToP GBA continuity is not Cless' top priority. He's using Cless, Klarth, etc., not the characters lozalized names. He's also using Midgard and Moria, rather than Mid Galds and Morlia, which were their ToP GBA localized names. It seems he's only using ToP GBA as a reference, to try to stay true to his intention to make it a true localization rather than a simple fan translation. In this regard, using "Early" would fit right in with what he's doing. He may also be using ToP GBA as a reference of what not to do, as with the shoddy translation job, as with the fact that he's changing "Milard's" name to Mirald. And despite the fact that Arlee may, in your opinion, sound more like a town name... well, I don't know many RPG town names that sound like... town names. LoL! Seriously though, THAT is nitpicking, in my honest opinion.

Not trying to attack you there, but you yourself asked,

Was all this not a legit argument?

so I thought I'd be obliged to counter your argument. ^_^;

I also have to say, that, yes, this is an open forum, but sometimes (and I know more than just myself have had experience with this), it goes a little far and gets kind of personal, where, even if you didn't intend something to come across a certain way, it does. I'm not going to speak for him, but I know that if I were in Cless' position right now I'd be pretty frustrated with all the "nitpicking" about the name of one or two spells. How about some discussion on how the infamous "boat scene" will be handled? ... At least that's getting at the heart of the translation (I think? ^_^;)

On a side note... How many of you actually read the name of the spell as it's being cast? XD I myself concentrate on something else, such as what the next thing I'm gonna do is. When I'm in an intense battle with Dhaos, I really don't bat an eye at the little caption of the spell name. ^_^; Too much else going on to really care what it says. I doubt I'd notice immediately if it said something like "Divine Fart" when Arche casts God Breath... Maybe you should really just go with that, Cless? See if people really do notice. XD... j/k, j/k! ^_^;;

[Kikujiro]

About the Majinken issue, you're wrong on something: it WAS translated as Demon Fang in ToL.

The thing is that there's two Majinkens in the game: the Senel one, which is spelled with the kanji "fist" at the end, and the Chloe one, which is spelled with the "Sword" kanji at the end.
The same can be applied with TotA, where Luke/Asch use the fist version and Guy and the sword version.

Since ToS, there HAS been a continuity between each Tales' localisation, and Cless is trying to follow this new order. That's why he'll name Cless' Majinken "Demon Fang" (since he uses the sword version)

[Fluffy]

About the Majinken issue, you're wrong on something: it WAS translated as Demon Fang in ToL.

I was going on an FAQ I found -- I haven't played ToL myself.

Since ToS, there HAS been a continuity between each Tales' localisation, and Cless is trying to follow this new order. That's why he'll name Cless' Majinken "Demon Fang" (since he uses the sword version)

I understand that -- my point was that in the series as a whole, there hasn't been continuity with a lot of the techs, and other things (even some of the items... example: "Spectacles" was magically changed to "Magic Lens" in ToS... unless the name changed in the Japanese version of ToS, there didn't seem to be any reason to change it, but anyway..). My point was just that this argument over using "Rock Mountain" versus "Debris Fall" really seems kind of pointless to me. I was using the fact that the series as a whole does not stay in continuity as a way to express that. 

I mean seriously, though... "Demon Fang" is, in my honest opinion, a perfectly decent localization -- "Missile Sword" on the other hand, seems kind of crappy. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of complaining (as I can see) that "Missile Sword" is a problem. (Though I'm sure with the right innitiative the argument over whether it's a problem or not could be easily sparked). Just trying to make a point, that's all. 

[Kikujiro]

Well, I think it is safe to say that there has been little to no continuation between Tales localizations before ToS one came out...

[Fluffy]

yes, I think it's quite safe. XD

[throughhim413]

Not to dig up old news, but I found something while I was playing Tales of the Abyss.  The FoF change for Anise's Miracle Hammer is called Rock Mountain.  I know we were having a big discussion about that before.  I don't know if that in any way legitimizes the claim towards it and I guess it doesn't really matter since Cless already changed the names, but I just thought people might want to know.  At least now we have actually seen Rock Mountain used in a localized game in any case.