ToP Translation Names

[Kikujiro]

It was Holy Wrath. But yeah, i was "WTH?" too when i saw that.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

Are you serious? It's hard enough to keep all the different -jutsu seperate plotwise without mixing them up between games.

oh man. i was definitely like "wtf" when i saw that in ToP GBA. isn't this one spot where we can deviate a bit?

[throughhim413]

I was just checking on what Cyllya had said earlier about Glaive.

ToP GBA did indeed use Glaive for the low-level earth spell.  Also, it actually used Explode rather then Explosion for the high fire spell.  However, it also used Debris Fall and Judgement, which I disagree with, so do what you will with that info.  I agree with the others though, Judgement and God Breath aren't the same move.  The element of the attack alone should be enough to seperate the two.  Though, I'll admit, when I first saw God Breath I thought it was Judgement just from appearance. 

AND, just to throw a little more confusion into the mix, would you mind sharing Mint's spell list?  She's another katakana girl.  Should I assume that we'll be seeing Resurrection instead of Raise Dead and Rejuvenation in place of Resurrection?  Just curious.

[Cless]

I chose Explosion because it's what Symphonia used. And no, I don't have any issues with Debris Fall.

But after thinking a little bit more about Divine Wind, I realized it's the same as kamikaze. Maybe I'll use it anyway.

Mint's list:

ファーストエイド
First Aid

ヒール
Heal

キュア
Cure

ナース
Nurse

リザレクション
Revitalize

アンチドート
Antidote

リカバー
Recover

レイズデッド
Resurrection

ピコハン
Pow Hammer

ピコピコハンマー
Pow Pow Hammer

アシッドレイン
Acid Rain

ディープミスト
Deep Mist

サイレンス
Silence

タイムストップ
Time Stop

チャージ
Charge

バリアー
Barrier

シャープネス
Sharpness

ディスペル
Dispel

ホーリィウォール
Holy Wall (spell not implemented into the final game, doesn't do anything if you hack it into her list)

ヘイスト
Haste (spell not mplemented into the final game, doesn't do anything if you hack it into her list)

ディレイ
Delay

[gyozilla]

I stand corrected. ^_^ and apparently it's also Mid Galds... wow, that just seems so wrong to me. Oh well. I still think Moria and Midgard are better, but what can you do? Their names are their names. ^_^;

Kana of a foreign word tends to be sounded out from their root/origin spelling. In this case, the kana probably reflects the Midgardr/Midgardhr/Midgarthr spelling. Similar to how the kana for Cerberus uses the greek pronunciation Keroberos.

I don't think I've ever seen トりニクスromanized in a way that I felt was effective.

..Effective? Try Trinix/Trinics?

So I do understand the argument, which is why I was only talking about Arche really.  She's the only character where what you hear is what you get.  The spell names are all in English (albeit stated in katakana form).

I'm more concerned with consistency and avoiding over-translation in an attempt to make things sound more "English" or "normal", even when they don't need to be (it's over-sensitivity to engrish). Something like Ice Needle(s) isn't really even engrish or nonsensical and yet ToL/ToPGBA felt the need to name it Ice Arrows, which is arguably worse (and more bland). And when enemies use it, it's still Ice Needle.

Cless, the inconsistency to me is I really don't understand how you thought Judgment and even Debris Fall were ok to use for continuity's sake or whatever, despite pretty solid reasons why it's a bad move, while you simply shrug off God('s) Breath cause it sounds weird or something. And if you thought about sticking with Judgment and other names (on a less important degree, like Ice Arrows) to reflect ToP GBA continuity, why even bother using Grave instead of Glaive?

Reasons were already given that Judgment confuses with other localizations (I don't think I'd consider Judgment From Above to be a billow of air either); Debris Fall is a bad translation to begin with and arguably engrish as well (and even if not engrish, I don't see how it isn't weirder than God's Breath); and the one you actually do have a logical reason for using, Glaive (even though I don't support it), you gave it up on a whim to follow conventional ToS/ToL. I think you'd get more respect from that spikes of earth = glaives reasoning or the fact that the description itself mentioned spears than Judgment and Debris Fall put together (I'm guessing it was ToS and Peter Garza's explanation for ToL that made an impact on using Grave). But it seems like you can let those slide for the sake of continuity. So I don't get the English radar, but I won't argue with the choices if you pull out the "personal creative choice" card; but Debris Fall doesn't sound weird but God('s) Breath is not cool?! And somehow Divine Wind now (which sounds like a Holy Fart) is still better than God('s) Breath (which you'd actually have to try harder to come up with an actual nasty image)?

It sorta extends to the rest of the skill list and other stuff like importing item lists with only minor edits, while the titles get an overhaul cause they're too boring (not that I disagree). I just don't understand the ambivalence, letting some slide while others get the Hand of Fate out of the blue cause it purportedly sounds too engrish or odd, when they don't even sound as bad as some of the ones you let slide like they got a free pass. If it's done this way, why bother following a pseudo-crappy translation for half-hearted reasons? At least being more liberal about creative edits gets you amusing NIS-esque results, which is something I know you advocate~

I'm all for personal "judgment call" reasons and it's your project, but some of the choices don't seem consistent, and maybe even contradictive (not to sound all critical or anything, sorry if it sounds like I yelled at you a whole bunch).

[throughhim413]

..Effective? Try Trinix/Trinics?

I can't say I'm a huge fan of those either.  I know how to romanize it, I just don't like the ways that I have seen it done or the ways that I've tried to do it.  Maybe it's just that I don't like the name.  Who really knows? 

I do agree with a lot of what you're saying about over-translating.  However, being that Cless has always stated that he isn't aiming for a straight translation but for a full localization, it's fair to assume that continuity with Symphonia takes top priority even at the cost of an accurate translation.  Myself, I have to admit that I'd probably be on your side of the fence, preferring a translation that is more accurate to one that has perfect continuity with the sometimes altered US ToS.  I like Rock Mountain, God Breath, and I'm really ok with either Glaive or Grave, but I understand what Cless is going for.  Uh, I'm just rambling now, so I'll stop here.

[Cless]

Cless, the inconsistency to me is I really don't understand how you thought Judgment and even Debris Fall were ok to use for continuity's sake or whatever, despite pretty solid reasons why it's a bad move, while you simply shrug off God('s) Breath cause it sounds weird or something. And if you thought about sticking with Judgment and other names (on a less important degree, like Ice Arrows) to reflect ToP GBA continuity, why even bother using Grave instead of Glaive?

Because Symphonia/console Tales translation continuity gets the utmost priority in my decisions.

As I already stated, Judgment was one I was sitting on the fence over the most, because it's a source of confusion as far as Symphonia continuity for the most part. For chrsissakes I had only made the change the night before when I was copying the GBA lists over. Aside from obvious Symphonia continuity I didn't put much thought into the other things and pasted in what ToP GBA used.

I still don't see the issue with Debris Fall. It makes a lot more sense than Rock Mountain, anyway. The spell effect has little to do with mountains except for their stone property, so I can easily see why it was changed officially. Rocks fall on the enemy. What's a better alternative that will make people happy? Rock Drop? Stone Crash? Avalanche? Landslide?

Really, it's difficult to please everyone, so nitpicking does bother me.

[throughhim413]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to nitpick...  Debris Fall isn't anything I'm going to lose sleep over.  You could change the name of every spell and at the end of the day I could still shrug it off.  Debris Fall, Rock Mountain, whatever... The spell sucks anyways. The spell translation is one of the smallest parts of the patch, so I say just put down whatever the hell you want and tell everyone else (including myself) to shut it.  Just a thought.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

I still don't see the issue with Debris Fall. It makes a lot more sense than Rock Mountain, anyway. The spell effect has little to do with mountains except for their stone property, so I can easily see why it was changed officially. Rocks fall on the enemy. What's a better alternative that will make people happy? Rock Drop? Stone Crash? Avalanche? Landslide?

Rock Mountain? it's a bunch of rocks falling on the enemy to create a mountain of rocks. it makes perfect sense. Debris Fall also makes perfect sense, but a) it's just as engrishy as Rock Mountain while b) not being what arche shouts out. hence my not seeing the point of using it, other than sticking to ToP GBA. and of course, you know what my opinion of both ToP GBA and the translation of ToP GBA is. (unless it was in ToS/ToL too?)

judgment is just... ugh. as you've already seen me say, i'd say at least toss out the ToP GBA name for this one. it's ridiculously confusing and a clearly bad decision on the translators' part. god/god's breath and divine wind are infinitely better, whichever you choose.

as for grave/glaive, both names are pretty much supported by the description.

letting some slide while others get the Hand of Fate out of the blue

hand of fate?

[Goshi]

I always thought of Rock Mountain as rocks from a mountain falling? Get it!? HUH HUH HUH.

Well actually it is rocks falling to form a mountain so it does make a little more sense. I don't care what you do with Rock Mountain in all honestly but God's Breath into Judgement is just no. It has nothing to do with a judgement ofg any sort. Divine Wind so corny so just leave it as God's Breath. I see no problem with doing that at least.

[Cless]

ARE YOU GUYS HAPPY NOW

[bungiefan]

I'd like to jokingly say that we're not happy until the translation patch is released.

I'd like to seriously say that many of us are just happy to see so much progress in such a short amount of time lately. I'm happy however it turns out. Don't damage that brain of yours on that brick wall so early now.

[Goshi]

Wait a minute Cyclone is Tempest now!? GRRR....

(j/k)

You didn't have to change them for me and my purist ways though >_>

But yeah go ahead keep them. Make the crowd happy.

[throughhim413]

I can't say I don't like the change, but really, like Julzar said, you really don't have to change things just to please one group or another.  Maybe next time I'll just go with "It looks great!" instead of any thoughts to save you any extra trouble. But really, thanks for the change Cless, I for one love it.

[DemonFang]

Cless...

This is YOUR project. You should do what you want to do, no matter what anyone else thinks (unless absolutely no one agrees with you  ) I am fine with all of these spell names either way - Glaive, Grave...who really cares?

So, I guess what I want to say is that no, I am not happy. I'm not happy because I know that this is not what you wanted to do. Please, don't let the nitpicking get to you. If these guys don't like how you're doing your thing, they can start their own localization project. Personally, I think you have done an excellent job since the beginning and I look forward to playing the finished product (no matter what spell names you decide to use.) One may disagree, yes, but it would be wrong to force anything on you, since you're the one doing all the (good) work. Keep it up, Cless! 

[Zappa]

ARE YOU GUYS HAPPY NOW

Yeah!