Now that ToP Is Translated What Games Next?

[throughhim413]

I'll gladly accept the criticism, I don't claim to be perfect.  In order to make this an "official" localization, the project would have had to leave my hands entirely, go to an editor who would work on the script on his/her own, and then perhaps another editor after that.  It's not that we rushed the release, but that we still have things that we want to do.  This is a 1.0 release.  It's complete, we're satisfied with it, but that doesn't mean it's finished.  At the same time, although we still have things we want to tweak, we didn't want to hold up the entire release to play with tiny feature additions that didn't really matter, I didn't particularly want to burden an editor with working on a project like this.  It would've been very difficult to find an editor familiar enough with the source material to edit the material effectively (at least one that wasn't already working with Cless' team).  I guess my point is that this isn't a commercial release.  There are more steps in a commercial release.  What I wanted to find out here was how able I was to translate a script under time constraints.  I too want to work in this field professionally.  But I'm still a student.  I'm still learning both Japanese and how to be a translator.  I don't think I'm perfect, but I'm rather pleased with the results.  Still, I respect what you're saying and I thank you for the frank and honest opinion.

EDIT: Oh, but your perception of the ability name selector is totally off.  It wasn't at all a last minute or rushed decision, it's something I thought of in mid-November and it was implemented well over a month before release.  There were various reasons we wanted to add it, but in the end, I'm quite pleased with the result.  Is there something you don't like about it?

[Cless]

I can see the source of frustration. I think the key is that when a translation is deemed 'literal', quite frankly, it doesn't mean that it is literally. The term is often used a bit loosely. I used to see this thrown around on anime DVD forums-- you have a localized dub and a "literal" subtitle translation. But you'd probably notice that the subtitles on anime DVDs are definitely not exactly literal. I think this is probably the same-ish thing?

[Carnivol]

I'm glad you're open to a bit of criticism.
After all, it's one of the best ways to learn.

What I wanted to find out here was how able I was to translate a script under time constraints.  I too want to work in this field professionally.  But I'm still a student.  I'm still learning both Japanese and how to be a translator.

Aah.
As a student, I think it should be fairly easy to score some random minor translation jobs (but don't expect to be paid more than lunch-money for it). Or well, certainly not if you're not picky about what type of jobs you take on.

EDIT: Oh, but your perception of the ability name selector is totally off.  It wasn't at all a last minute or rushed decision, it's something I thought of in mid-November and it was implemented well over a month before release.

Ahah, guess I should've used a different set of words.
When I said "rushed decision", I guess we both interpret it differently.
Basically, you just described what I would call a rushed decision... when I'm at work!

you have a localized dub and a "literal" subtitle translation.

Like, how you've got two set of subs, one that is more or less a transcript of the English dub and one that is a translation of the Japanese audio?

[throughhim413]

Yeah, that's more or less what we're talking about here.  I think part of the reason that my mind kept this translation on the more literal side of things is that the possibility of porting our work to the PSP edition still exists.  When the script is fully voiced, it really is more like subtitling than it is writing a dub script.  Truth be told, I would've liked the chance to try a more "localized" approach, and perhaps I'll have the chance in the future.  But for now, it made sense to approach it with that "subtitle" kind of mentality.  And I don't think that it comes off sounding so bad, though obviously some disagree.

Well, if I go around the whole net trying to fight everyone who disagrees with me, I'll be committing slow suicide, so I'm certainly not trying to do that.  But at least here, where I like to think of myself as a contributing member, I hope to explain myself as best I can.  I don't believe I'm necessarily right or necessarily wrong with how I do things.  As I said before, I think it's really up to the player to decide.

EDIT:  A month before our release means that it was implemented when we still had 25% of our project in front of us.  Is that really rushed?  Also, as for minor translation jobs, that's kind of what I'm using romhacking for.  At this point, I can try things out, experiment, see what works and what doesn't and it's all just for fun in the end.  There's no downside except for the disdain of the internet (which I can live with).

[Carnivol]

I think part of the reason that my mind kept this translation on the more literal side of things is that the possibility of porting our work to the PSP edition still exists.

Finally someone else than me who also knows the horror of audio and text mismatches!

But at least here, where I like to think of myself as a contributing member, I hope to explain myself as best I can.

That's actually a very good idea, then all answers/information/comments will be available at one spot too. Less chances for mis-quoting and/or whatever stupidity people come up with.

A month before our release means that it was implemented when we still had 25% of our project in front of us. Is that really rushed?

Not at all, just different opinions about what is (or more like when something is) considered a last minute change. You'll probably have many hands-on experiences with that in the future.

[LJkAze]

Though my English is good when I talk with someone in person but if I write I ain't good so bare with me people 

throughhim413 why are you even starting a TOP translation project anyways? The project is about  close to 95-100%, what the point? Furthermore there is other tales project you can be doing that needs translation but why pick TOP? Do something else like the Spin off: TOP-ND, TOW-ND2, TOW-ND3 though it suppose to be Kajitani-Eizan job but dunno why he quit? You could do a Symphonia translation for the PS2 a lot of Symphonia PS2 Fan boys would be happy. Why not try TOD2, TODr, TOR, or even TOI that just came out recently? Not trying to make an argument just saying its pointless to start on something that someone work on for several of year and to find out they have a rival if your intention was that?

[throughhim413]

@LJkZze: That matter has kind of been done to death...  Plus, we're already done, so there's no point in discussing it now...  Basically, differing visions for ToP but an equal passion created a separate project.  But considering we released it already, I don't think there's much point in talking about reasons why we did it.  It's done.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

also, it seems like everyone (e.g. LJkAze) somehow missed my ND2 update ;_;

http://www.geocities.com/...ade_2187/nd2/nd2ke140.zip

i should probably actually update my site... i would put the link in my sig but there are some rather restrictive limitations for some reason...

[Gemini]

i, uh, definitely think using "Gumi" counts as having "more of a purist/literal approach", at least when compared to Cless's project. and i see nothing indicating that Cless's project isn't "accurate".

I was talking about through's style on the "literal" matter, 'cause his is script is all but literal. I didn't even mention Cless' project at all nor I said that it's accurate or not. I hate that expression because most people consider our as the "quick&dirty project", while there are so many nitpicks (which took me a LOT of time to complete) people can't even imagine and they tend to consider our patch as rushed, but it really wasn't at all. We took all the time we needed (think, the first release was supposed to be in January), and, as you already should know, I'm a perfectionist on the translation&hacking matter, so I do not need to rush my projects for whatever reason. I never did and I never will.

It also seems like the instant mention of a v1.1 patch the same day as the 1.0 was released indicates that things have been rushed and things not postponed to take care of various issues.

We never mentioned a v1.1, not that I can remember. The readme clearly states that we are probably not even going to release one unless it's really necessary. And with really necessary I mean severe bugs, real hardware crashes or several typos and grammatical errors with the script. So far nobody complained about the translation quality. Even Suzaku (another translator from the scene) said it reads damn good, and other people told me the script is really good, especially the item descriptions. Also I'm REALLY happy about my part of the patch and I really don't see how that could be improved, so I can't find any reason to release a v1.1 patch so soon.

2: I actually pushed for a similar idea long ago. And I honestly couldn't help but feel that the one you've included was a last minute decision spawned from one of the heated discussions recently between people about skill names.

As through already said, it was implemented over a month before the release date. I can also say on that matter that the variable dictionary was implemented around the end of September, but it was tweaked for the ability selector 2 months later, but it was already there almost from the beginning. The only "late" feature was the prologue subtitles, but we never said they were to make it into the final patch, and still I added them during the beta testing period, but it really wasn't anything rushed at all.

[bungiefan]

also, it seems like everyone (e.g. LJkAze) somehow missed my ND2 update ;_;

http://www.geocities.com/...ade_2187/nd2/nd2ke140.zip

i should probably actually update my site... i would put the link in my sig but there are some rather restrictive limitations for some reason...

What's new in this update?

[flashfactor7]

Wow, I didn't know my thread would start all of this. I'm glad to have the translation by absolute zero but I'll also be waiting anxiously for Cless' teams translation. The fact of the matter is that each team will bring their own feel to the game via the differences in their translations. It isn't anything to argue about. I'll be looking forward to playing through both, as all of us here can say for sure we can never get enough of this game. Which is why so much time and energy has gone into a translation for it.

And on a side note all the people complaining about errors in the patch...its version 1.0, state the issues in the proper place and when they see fit to correct them they will.

Personally I wish I had the time to really get started with the game again but I'm only 10minutes in, the holidays are busy.

[Kogahazan]

We never mentioned a v1.1, not that I can remember.

http://forum.tales-cless....-of-phantasia/hey-artists!-we-need-you-again!/msg8532/#msg8532

But I guess he was just kicking around the idea of a v1.1 and was speaking for himself but still using "we"

[throughhim413]

I probably shouldn't have said 1.1, I was really just using that statement to say "we've been considering this too, but didn't bother to do it yet".  So rather than saying that we ARE doing a 1.1, it was more of, "This is one thing we're considering if we have another version of the patch".  But like Gemini said, right now, we really haven't seen enough cause to release a 1.1.  Sorry for causing the confusion...

[Gemini]

http://forum.tales-cless....-of-phantasia/hey-artists!-we-need-you-again!/msg8532/#msg8532

But I guess he was just kicking around the idea of a v1.1 and was speaking for himself but still using "we"

No, he told me the same thing the day after the release, but it was just a suggestion for a possible future release. It's not like we really need to release a new patch only to nitpick something small as Custom instead of Customize. The readme is clear on that matter.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

What's new in this update?

a lot, i guess... a bunch of localization stuff, translated dialogue for the intro and the main plotline of the game, title screen, etc.

the script isn't as polished as i'd like, mainly because i didn't have an editor going through the whole thing (though carnivol helped a crapload). i wince every time i encounter a glaringly awkward line, then go correct it in the database for the next version of the patch, whenever that might be.

EDIT: RHDN link.

[Thundercles]

Can we get back to thoughts on the future and come away from second guessing projects that have already come to pass?  Seriously, start a new thread if you feel like justifying yourselves, or implying that certain translations are sub-par, or trying to reinterpret reasonable answers as implications of lack of quality.

My vote is for Tod2, since it would be nice to get some ps2 hacking experience; the first Tales game released on ps2 seems like a good start. Or possibly "Tales of Cless's Much-Needed Vacation From the Internets", a rare title, known only in select circles that have been following the tales series for seven plus years.  I shall have to decide.