2 Projects Almost there!

[DarkCless]

After i saw the exciting news here, i must say i was pretty happy. Then going to the other ToP project and seeing there almost done aswell. This is like a dream T.T but even though Cless's project may be more accurate, i have a feeling i'll probably like cless's project more, but even still the other project i'm still happy because of the speed. I guess thats the difference between doing it in spare time, and doing it more as a full-time hobby:P either way both projects will be awesome, great job guys

[throughhim413]

Normally I wouldn't want to get involved in this topic given my position, but there's one thing I'd like to say.  Don't assume that our speed means that we sacrificed any quality or accuracy in our work.  Even if I were to put another thousand hours into the game, I wouldn't know where to put them.  I gave my best effort to make this script everything I wanted it to be.  Likewise, Cless has done the same.  I don't want my work to be judged as "the fast project", nor do I want Cless' project to be judged on speed.  Frankly, speed has nothing to do with romhacking.  I want my work to be judged based on my work, I certainly didn't get into this trying to win any kind of race.  Well, as always, I will opt for same thing that I have said before: let's judge these projects when there is actually something to judge.

I've worked on this project in my free time just like anyone else would have.  This isn't a job for me, I'm a full time student and have obligations like anyone else.  From the beginning, I've given it my all and I'm proud of my effort.  That's what I have always worked for, to be able to say that.  I'm sure Cless would say the same thing.

[DarkCless]

Well look, i wasn't trying to say that your translation isn't going to be as accurate as cless by no means, i'm sorry if you got that impression, and lets face it your project is the fast project, if i did say anything about it being of a lesser quality i'm sorry it's not what i intended it to mean, i'm just expressing my happiness to both of the projects, because i know that you and cless have both worked hard to get to this point. The only reason i might like cless's more is because of the little minor bits like the font type or size, or the fact that he is using Gels instead of Gummi's it's simply a matter of what i prefer, this isn't to say i'm not going to like your project, Cless has done a fair amount just trying to make the little things perfect. And thats also not to say you haven't aswell, look i'm not trying to step on anyone's toes i'm just a fan of the game and i just want to play it ASAP like i'm sure everyone else does.

Also i wouldn't worry about what 1 person says, i've only recently started posting here and it's not really like my opinion matters that much to anyone here.

Also of course there is probably stuff i don't know about like with your full-time studies and whatnot, i'm not the kind of person who wants to know everything about the translators and what they do for a living etc.

So yeah if i stepped on anyone's toes i apologize, but yeah i wouldn't worry about it all projects get positive or negative feedback or in between, I still appreciate both projects just as much.

[throughhim413]

I apologize if I came off as sounding particularly harsh, I didn't really mean to.  I wasn't really concerned by what you said on a personal level, but I just didn't want to let any misunderstandings get out of hand.  I welcome criticism, I just want to make sure it's for the right reasons, though in this case, that's not really what we're even talking about.  In any case, I'm a long-time lurker on Cless' forums here, a habit I've never managed to break despite creating my own project.  That is to say, I'm not out there looking for positive and negative feedback on what I'm doing, I just happened across this thread and was inclined to respond.

[DarkCless]

Maybe it's just me, i tend to get a little spun up sometimes, anyway i look forward to your project, this probably was my fault so please accept my apologizes, i'm always nervus when posting in forums and stuff because i tend to say something stupid(carelessness usually) and people just flame me so yeah, i think your project is equally great and i hope it's released soon. Anyways take care ^_^

[Thundercles]

You two going to share a politically correct and absolutely proper and civil kiss now that you've made up and decided you agree and mean no offense?

Sorry, couldn't resist, the little dance number you two have performed in order to avoid stepping on toes is just hilarious to me.

[DarkCless]

lol

[Frogacuda]

From what I've seen throughhim's project seems to focus on literal accuracy at the expense of natural sounding writing. Maybe this will be cleared up in editing, but this is the impression I get from the screens he's posted so far.

Cless is going more for a localization approach, if a bit more tasteful than anyone Namco would do in real life. Preserving the "spirit" of the game in a way that will make sense to people even if they aren't familiar with Japanese culture.

They're different approaches. I prefer Cless' approach and that has wider appeal, but throughhim's school of translation has its proponents too, and if people have a choice, all the better.

I just wish they could have at least collaborated on the hacking end, even if they did make two seperate patches. Would have been a good way to support each other.

[Cless]

I just wish they could have at least collaborated on the hacking end, even if they did make two seperate patches. Would have been a good way to support each other.

Such a thing could've happened. I approached throughhim and Cyllya four months ago to do translation work while I awaited contact from Shinhoshi. Coincidentally, throughhim told me that he had just started on a separate project for the game with an unnamed hacker.

After learning of that, I offered throughhim an opportunity to do a separate, no-holds-barred script of his own based on our hacking work since I believed a completely separate hack was a totally pointless waste of time. He talked to the hacker whom declined the offer. I figured he was just someone somewhat new to PSX hacking and was looking for something to play with. From there, I wished them luck and stopped pushing for a collaboration.

After a week of noticing just how amazingly fast it was moving, it became rather obvious who was doing the hacking, and there was a snowball's chance in hell he'd agree to work with someone else. Why he chose to veil himself from the public at first is a mystery to me. Anyway, my feelings changed quite a bit from there.

Ultimately, it came down to throughhim choosing my offer or sticking with his hacker, and as far as I can tell, he's content with the decision he made.

[Frogacuda]

Why wouldn't Gemini want to help on a joint hacking project? I don't really know the history here.

[Cless]

Things get done his way, or no way. Period.

I have my own iron-fisted grip on things when it comes to Tales game translations, personally.

[Frogacuda]

Alls well that ends well, I suppose. I'm sure it would have been a lot more frustrating if he did this 2 years ago when there were some real hacking hold ups.

[Cless]

I'm sure it would have been a lot more frustrating if he did this 2 years ago when there were some real hacking hold ups.

Indeed. And honestly, deep down, it's still somewhat frustrating that we most certainly won't be the first ones releasing, after all these years it has taken for the hacking and translating to really lift off the ground. Guess that puts a dent into potential "e-fame" or whatever. It's not like Phantasian Productions is finished with the release of Phantasia. We still have Destiny 2. And there's also the potential for the other PS2 games.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

i can think of only one reason...



... in all seriousness, i regret that the two projects didn't end up working together. it just wasn't to be, i suppose.

[throughhim413]

Reading the history of my project makes ME laugh.  The timing of starting my own project with Gemini and then not even a week later having Cless approach me remains one of the most surreal situations I've ever been put in.  I honestly never expected Cless to open that offer at all.  I mean, I was hanging around here offering to help for what, like a year maybe?  I didn't think I'd ever get that offer.  And so I had absolutely no hesitations to start my own project.  It wasn't born out of any kind of desire to one-up Phantasian Productions, it's just that I wanted to work on ToP more than anything.  It's easy to say that I could have worked on some other game, but I've been a ToP fanatic for several years now.  It was and still is my dream project. 

As for why Gemini kept himself hidden at first, there's not really a single reason for it.  I was under the impression that he and Cless were on speaking terms, which would have made it kind of awkward to just come out and say that we were creating a "competing" project.  Our goal was actually to avoid drama, believe it or not.  That's why I was glad that Cless and I had sorted out most of it out through PM before everything kind of blew up on us.  Well, it was inevitably a strange twist when everything came to light, but with the dust more or less settled now, I've been glad to see people embracing both projects for what they're offering.

Gemini wanted to work on ToP the same as I did, though I recall I was the one to suggest that we work on it.  We had just finished working on a previous project together (which still hasn't been released actually) and we both enjoyed the experience.  It made sense to work together again, and as Cless said, in the end, I simply had to make a choice.  Like Gemini and Cless, I have a very strong desire to do things my way many times.  Working with Gemini offered me the freedom to do things with the script that I wasn't sure I'd have the chance to do working with Cless' localization standards.  That's not the only thing, but I guess that to me, a project run by two people has more allure than working in a large group.  I get to be a lot more involved.  So certainly it isn't a decision that I regret.  Like Kaji said, it is somewhat of a shame that we couldn't cooperate, but given all of our positions and ways of doing things, I still can't help but think that it may be a good thing that we went our separate ways with our projects.  In the end, we can all be proud of what we produce.

As for what Frogacuda said, I hope that my writing still doesn't sound unnatural when our patch is released...  It sounds good to me, but perhaps that's a fault in my logic being influenced by knowledge of Japanese grammar.  I've been testing our patch and have been making edits to an already heavily edited script (all the screenshots were taken before this editing was done).  I hope that you'll be pleased with the result in the end, but if not, that's why everyone is fortunate that we have two very different projects coming.  And wow, this post ended up being REALLY long.  Sorry...

[DarkCless]

I feel kind of guilty, I'm sure there is a bit of tenstion between the 2 translators, i feel like i stirred things up a little, this was never my intention. I just wanted to maybe start a topic for people saying how happy they are they are, that we won't have that shitty GBA version(sorry for anyone who likes it) apart from the Snes version which is good and all, and i hate too be the person to seem like a graphics whore, but having a little less dated graphics would be awesome thus ToP PSX is like a dream. To be honest i dislike most high quality RPGs such as Oblivion, it seems more open-source rather than a game, of course thats my opinion. Anyway i just wanted to get along with everyone since i'm not a forum person. But if i stirred up anything forgive me throughhim413 and Cless. v.v