"select" and "cancel" buttons

[Mr_ChuckWagon]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it by searching:

Since Phantasian productions' project is intended to "localize" Tales of Phantasia, will the final release use the North American control scheme (X button to select and O to cancel/dash) or stick with the Japanese control scheme (O to select and X to cancel/dash)?

I'm aware that there's some "logic" behind the Japanese control scheme (a circle is the Japanese equivalent of a checkmark, making the buttons basically say "yes" and "no"), but as a North American gamer I perfer the "inverted" control scheme that almost all localized games use.  I've been able to get used to the Japanese control style while playing Tales of Destiny PS1, but I've always found it to be a little awkward on the field (and nearly impossible to deal with in battle, though those controls can be changed.)

I'm not sure how easy a control hack would be to implement, but I'm just curious as to what Cless and the rest of the team's takes are on this issue.

[spaceworlder]

Having played PSX ToP for the last week, I have to agree with the topic creator. An inverted set-up would be nice.

[pedrocasilva]

I remember having that difficulty too.

But it all comes along with habit.

EDIT: just popped it into my old PSone... hey, it's easily configurable, just go to the options (hard time finding it in Japanese though); I think even in the SNES version you had that kind of control over it; I never messed with it though.

Changing the predefinition wouldn't be bad, but it's not like there's not a easy enough solution.

It's the third option counting from the end of the listing in the options menu (text speed, etc), btw; that opens up a key configuration menu.

[Cless]

Shrug.

Having played games since the NES, I always felt that SCEA suddenly mandating this control swap never made any sense and have never liked it. I absolutely hated it in Tales of Legendia especially, because you couldn't change the battle controls in that one.

But more to the point, this kind of hack sounds like it may be more trouble than it's worth. I suspect that we'd have to hack every last thing that checks for these button presses. Very tedious.

[pedrocasilva]

Shrug.

Having played games since the NES, I always felt that SCEA suddenly mandating this control swap never made any sense and have never liked it. I absolutely hated it in Tales of Legendia especially, because you couldn't change the battle controls in that one.

yeah, but you grow used to it; to the point that the Japanese layout turns out to be the odd one.

But more to the point, this kind of hack sounds like it may be more trouble than it's worth. I suspect that we'd have to hack every last thing that checks for these button presses. Very tedious.

I agree on the "more trouble than it's worth" part, as for the rest I wouldn't know.

Thankfully, we have the option of changing it; I didn't knew Legendia lacked it though... I wouldn't use it, but it should be there for the ones who do. (the japanese version lacked it too, or was it axed?)

[ForceCube]

I have been playing so many games with the Japanese control scheme lately, I just got totally used to it. Now using X to confirm just seems so... strange.

Anyway, I don't really care if the patch comes with inverted controls or not, since I'll just get used to whatever the control scheme is in the end. No big deal.

[Kevassa]

I am confused when playing games that invert my control scheme, but you get used on your third try, SERIOUSLY guys, you cant be saying that you cant play as wel as you played without the inversion, I had problems, but like I said, the third time I always am accustommed to the button config (BTW I always use X as an attack in Tales games)

[Infoseeker]

Doesn't matter what the keys are for me. I'll just get used to it during the game-through. Though I would most likely take sometime for it.

[Kogahazan]

Thankfully, we have the option of changing it; I didn't knew Legendia lacked it though... I wouldn't use it, but it should be there for the ones who do. (the japanese version lacked it too, or was it axed?)

Yeah, the Japanese version lacks it as well. It wasn't made by Namco Tales Studio like most of the other games so they didn't include a few series staples (like BEING ABLE TO THROW AWAY THAT 15TH PANACEA BOTTLE SO YOU CAN OPEN THAT ONE CHEST AT THE VERY END OF A DUNGEON).

[bungiefan]

I'm aware that there's some "logic" behind the Japanese control scheme (a circle is the Japanese equivalent of a checkmark, making the buttons basically say "yes" and "no"), but as a North American gamer I perfer the "inverted" control scheme that almost all localized games use.

There's more to the logic than that. The PS1 controller was based around the SNES controller layout, and a lot of people upgraded to PS1 from SNES. The Circle button is where the A button was on the SNES, and A was almost universally used for accept with B for cancel (where the Cross button is now). SCEA even used the same button functions as Japan for the first several years of the PS1 (up until sometime between the release of FF Tactics and FF VIII). Even now, some games released here still keep the Japanese layout intact. You just get used to mentally swapping to get used to it when you play a lot of imports and get your hands on certain games like Xenosaga.

Phantasia has a button config menu anyway, so they don't need to change the default. You can change it youself.

[Kogahazan]

Phantasia has a button config menu anyway, so they don't need to change the default. You can change it youself.

Wasn't it the case that you can only change battle controls that way? I get the feeling that these people want a total conversion, not just battles but for out-of-battle menus as well.

[pedrocasilva]

I get the feeling that these people want a total conversion

not me *shivers*

By "total conversion" I get the "chills of redubbed voice overs", anything but that.

[habilain]

I'd echo Cless's comment on it being really way too much effort for too little gain. I'm not even sure on where to start for most of it. Though I do know that each and every submenu has it's own routines to check for input, and each one of these would have to be hacked. Unless I make something that autodetects this for me, it's way too much effort.

That said though... it probably wouldn't be too hard to make an autodetector. However, it'd be at the absolute lowest level of priorities.

And besides, I assume that most people will be emulating this by now? If it's a huge issue, change the buttons in the emu. I've done that on a couple of games (like the otherwise excellent Lunar: TSS) and it worked fine.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

i'm honestly really confused as to why they did the change. it was like that on the SNES, it was like that in FF7, it was like that in FFT... why change it all of a sudden? obviously the japanese intended to keep the status quo, with the positioning of the circle and X buttons.

[gyozilla]

Some douches decided we needed to be different all of a sudden? Tons of people here mark Xs in boxes on forms and surveys instead of checks/ticks. And worst off, X-ing a choice (in effect, crossing it out) instead of circling it.

[Carnivol]

I know the team who did Xenogears 2.0 (based on the tools from the Italian(?) Xenogears patch) had the buttons in that game swapped "back" again, but that might've been easier to do, thanks to there being versions available of the game for both O/X and X/O layout.

But in general, without really having much of a clue here now; wouldn't it all be easier to basicly just swap the entire registered input from X and O and then alter the settings for default battle commands and such in the customize menu?

Also, come to think of it, didn't Tales of Destiny have the "proper" O/X style, while Tales of Eternia/Destiny II joined the trend of X/O?

Some douches decided we needed to be different all of a sudden? Tons of people here mark Xs in boxes on forms and surveys instead of checks/ticks. And worst off, X-ing a choice (in effect, crossing it out) instead of circling it.

Actually, I think I have a possible theory as for why the O/X swap happened.
I remember that when the Snes was brand spanking new, the A button felt very hard to reach... for the first 5minutes... I would imagine that that is more than enough time for some idiot at Sony to get "ideas".