Costumes, attitudes, ToP flashbacks

[Cyllya]

Yo, Cless. *poke poke*

Is there a finalized list of costume names and attitude names? If so, can we see them? If not, can we make them? If you have a guess how many letters are going to be available when all the hacking magic is done, that'd be helpful. Also, when a character's attitude is one of their main six/three (that have a bar), the same name appears at the top of the status screen, so do you know if we're required to have the same name up there that we have by the bar? Because it looks like there's heck of a lot more space up there.

And there are at least two scenes that are the exact same scene from ToP (after last boss fight and when Suzu kills her parents), so they need to be translated the same way in both games. Can we translate them instead of Shinhoshi? If we keep ND1's little text boxes in mind, we should be able to write it so it sounds good in both games, but if you just translate it in ToP and then try to cram it into ND1, it'll only be good in ToP. (Because splitting clauses up between text boxes makes it sound it sound all choppy even if it's great otherwise.)

[throughhim413]

Also, if there is some kind of menu text, I wouldn't mind having a look at it regardless.  There's a lot of info in the menu that we need to have match up with certain things in the game script, so if there is a menu text dump, it'd probably be nice to have for reference, if nothing else.

And while I'm at it, this has brought up two thoughts about what's considered 'canon'.  You mentioned Suzu killing her parents.  ND1 was made after the PSX remake of Tales of Phantasia, so it shouldn't be an issue, however as we know, some things were changed from the SFC version to what is now considered to be canon.  I mean, I thought in the PSX version Cless killing Suzu's parents was the canon plot, otherwise Suzu doesn't join the party, which we know as part of canon that she does.  Am I missing something here?  Likewise, Martel's fate at the end of the game in reference to the Great Harvest differs from game to game, although I'm not sure if this has any implications for ND1.

[Cyllya]

Suzu doesn't join either way? o.o Hmm. Did ND1 ever have anything that depended on her joining though? (Was she in Cless's Dhaos flashback?)

As to what's considered canon, I don't think Tales creators believe in canon (CANON EXISTS IN YOUR HEART lawlz), which makes this difficult. My usual take on branching plot lines in Tales is to take whichever branch is always used in sequels, linear adaptations, etc as what actually happened (I think they've been consistent, with Aselia at least?) but still consider any information provided by the other branches (characterization, backstory, what who would have done) as valid, since even if it didn't happen, it could have. (Actually, since branching timelines aka parallel worlds are already built into the Aselia continuity, technically, they actually did all happen...? :p) I used too many parentheses in this paragraph; hopefully you can understand it. ;_;

ND1 is totally ambiguous about Martel. SamoRine also. I am under the impression that the writers try to avoid that point. ^.^;;;

[throughhim413]

A... Actually, now I'm not sure either...  Why do I think that she only joins if you win?  I'll have to break out my PSP here and check.  I just finished talking to Cless in ND1... I want to say that she was there, but I can't say I'm 100% certain on that either.

*Laughs*  Talking about Aselian canon is sometimes like beating your head on the ground hoping to find gold.

[Cyllya]

Guess we should stick to discussing Aselian cannons.

[throughhim413]

You were totally right.  Suzu joins even if you lose and she deals the final blow.  I wonder why I thought otherwise...
*Shrugs*  At least now I know that my concerns about canon were unfounded.

[Cless]

I hesitate to call anything final. Everything I have is based around current limitations.

to get a rough idea about how to fit things with the eventual variable width font, try this:

The average character will be 5 pixels wide. lowercase L and I are 2. Long characters like M, W and their lowercase counterparts are 8. Spaces will be 3. I think the lowercase J is 3 and the lowercase F and T are 4.

IIRC  the personality types were 5 characters max, yeah? 8x5=40 pixels.

Item names 8x8=64 pixels.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

awesome would be a little program that lets you paste in a line of text and tells you how wide it would be.  a certain someone (not me) might be able to do this...?

(or i guess i could do it, a bit later... not quite right now though.)

[gyozilla]

just to answer, iirc that suzu scene stays the same between versions.

I believe ToP PSX is canon (and some parts of ToP GBA, namely new stuff like Arcia. But the new Dwarven Temple part that Pluto lords over? Forget it! >_>). Anything SFC is buried and/or disowned (the ending, old akazukin cha cha-influenced Suzu, King Grimson Glory).

[throughhim413]

Cless, thanks for the info on the fonts and such.  Given that, would you prefer that we make up our own names for the costumes and personalities, or should we be using what you have for now, even if they are placeholders?

akazukin cha cha-influenced Suzu

So it wasn't just me that felt that way about the similarities, huh?  Actually, I'm more shocked that you referenced Akazukin Chacha.  Most people in the English speaking world don't even know the name of the manga/anime, much less reference it.  I'm impressed.  I guess you could call me an Akazukin Chacha fan.

From what you've listed as canon there, wouldn't it be fair just to say that ToP PSP is what should be considered canon?  Given that story wise, it's just PSX + Arshia/Arcia + some bells and whistles.

[Cless]

Well... I guess it doesn't matter unless there's an official equivalent...

[gyozilla]

I guess you could call me an Akazukin Chacha fan.

hehe, this is gonna blow your mind then: SFC version, go to the Beladam house near the right. I don't remember where everyone else is though :/

[throughhim413]

Oh man, you just made my day.  Maybe a few days.  This makes me wish I had played farther into the SFC version.  I stopped before I got to the Past...  I went back and checked, Chacha is still there in the PSX/PSP version, but I'm willing to bet that what she says in the SFC version is more blatant.  Also, here's some info I found on a Japanese site on the other characters.

Chacha - Past Belladam Village.
Shiine-chan -  Past Venezzia Food Store, Future Venezzia House.
Riiya - In the house in Alvanista with a lot of dogs, one says: 'I'm not a dog! I'm a wolf!!'
Yakko-chan - Olive Village General Store
Marin-chan - Future Alvanista, girl who wants to marry into a rich family.
Orin-chan - Suzu

Very cool stuff, and this might be the inspiration I needed to play through the rest of the SFC version.  Thanks for the info, gogs!

[Cyllya]

So. Should I start a list of items/costumes/etc based on Cless's plan for variable width font? I'll post them here for approval.

[throughhim413]

You can start it, I can start it, it doesn't really matter which I suppose.  I probably don't even have half of the costumes with where I stopped in the game, so it's probably best if you do it.  And of course we'll go over them as always, so it'll all work out.

[Cyllya]

Ouch. Cleeeeeeeesssssss~ do you suppose lowercase m (and w, I guess) could end up 6 pixels? Otherwise "Costume Artist" is one pixel too long. I guess we could take out the space. I'd prefer "CostumeArtist" over "Cosplayer," "Actor," etc.

Here's what I got so far. I bolded the ones I'm not happy about, but feel free to argue with any of them. Someone might want to check my math on some of the ones that just barely fit, as I am weak in arithmetic.

f = 4
i = 2
l = 2
m = 8
t = 4
w = 8
space = 3
else = 5
...right?

Costume name limit assuming we take out the shirt icon = 64 pixels

なりきりし Costume Artist (65 pixels ;_;)
みならいけんし Squire
--Note: Apprentice Swordsman is long and bleh. If Kenshi=Knight (see below), this one might as well be Squire.
けんし Knight
--Note: I know kenshi doesn't mean knight, but there's lots of precedent for that trans (as in, kenshi does mean the RPG definition of knight), and I don't like the word Fencer, and I figure people would gripe about Mel being called a swordsman more than about her being called a knight (despite the fact that swordsman is technically a unisex term while I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a female knight). Knight also sounds better with the other costume names that include the word kenshi, and knight is the official trans of the costume.
けんごう Sword Master (63 px)
--Note: The official trans for this costume is Master Fencer.
さむらい Samurai
かくとうか Fighter
しはんだい Grappler
--Note: Don't like this one. Can't think of anything better. The name means "assistant instructor," um, of a martial arts dojo I guess. There was an enemy in ToP PSX/GBA called this. It looked like the kenshi costume though.
チャンピオン Champion
せきとり Sumo
--Note: Sekitori is a kind of sumo wrestler or something. Also "Sumo Wrestler" makes it slightly too long, 66 px.
まほうつかい Magic User (48 px)
フレアメイジ Flare Mage (47 px)
アクアメイジ Aqua Mage (46 px)
ウィンドメイジ Wind Mage (46 px)
アースメイジ Earth Mage (49 px)
サンダーメイジ Thunder Mage (61 px)
ソーサリス Sorceress (45 px)
ウィッチ Witch
ソーサラー Sorcerer
ウィザード Wizard
ヒーラー Healer
クレリック Cleric
プリーステス Priestess (42 px)
ハンター Hunter
レンジャー Ranger
アーチャー Archer
シューター Shooter
スナイパー Sniper
とうぞく Thief
--Note: Touzoku means theif, but this costume, er, can't steal. Only the next one (and Suzu) can. What do you think of calling this one Rogue and the next one (おおどろぼう) Thief?
おおどろぼう Burglar
アサシン Assassin
にんじゃ Ninja
にんじゃがしら Ninja Master (57 px)
--Note: Literally "Ninja head/leader"
しょうにん Merchant
だいしょうにん Big Merchant (57 px)
--Note: I don't like this name. Can't think of anything better.
がくしゃ Scholar
かくとうけんし Gladiator (38 px)
--Note: Don't like this one either. It's a fighter/swordsman mix, like Cless or Stahn.
ほのおのけんし Flame Knight (54 px)
しっぷうけんし Gale Knight (46 px)
せいなるけんし Holy Knight (46 px)
かみなりとうし Bolt Warrior (55 px)
--Note: This is a lightning-based fist-fighter. Thunder Master was 71 px. Thunder Champ was 66 px. Bolt Fighter was 51, but I liked it less.
しゅうどうそう Monk
--Note: I guess this costume is 修道僧. It's male-only healer/fist-fighter, which is the typical RPG definition of "Monk."
けんじゃ Sage
バジリスク Basilisk
バグベア Bugbear
ダークアイ Dark Eye
ちょうきょうし Animal Trainer (62 px)
まものつかい Demon Trainer (64 px)
--Note: We are still using Demon for mamono, right?
ドラゴンナイト Dragon Knight (59 px)
しにがみ Reaper
--Note: It doesn't include a scythe. God of Death is 55 px, should we use that instead?
かに Crab
あそびにん Clown
ギャンブラー Gambler
やくしゃ Actor
--Note: The costume looks like a "Kabuki Actor" (54 px). Even though the name isn't that specific, should we call it that instead, so people don't go "What the--? Why's this costume look like THAT?")
てじなし Illusionist (42 px)
--Note: This is actually magician (as in performer of magic tricks), but I was worried people would expect it to be more of a wizard. Plus the one quest that is this costume's justification for existing doesn't use it in the typical magician way, imo.
おどりこ Dancer
モデル Model
うたひめ Songstress (49 px)
さすらいけんし Ronin
--Note: A rounin is a masterless (wandering) samurai, which is not quite what this costume is, technically, but "Wandering Swordsman" and "Wandering Knight" are both too long. It looks similar to the samurai costume, is male only, and isn't used in any quests. Spelled as ronin, it's an accepted English word.
めがみけんし Blade Goddess (60 px)
--Note: Goddess Knight barely fits (64), but it sounds funny. I like Sword Goddess the best, but it's 66 px.
りょうりにん Chef
りょうし Fisherman (42 px)
--Note: The "official" trans for this costume is Angler.
かじや Blacksmith (46 px)
えかき Artist
まんがか Comic Artist (55 px)
おうじさま Prince
うらないし Fortuneteller (59 px --YAY!)
クレス Cless
ふうすいし Geomancer (48 px)
クラース Klarth
おひめさま Princess
チェスター Chester
ギャル Gal
モリスン Morrison
ミント Mint
ダオス Dhaos
アーチェ Arche
パックマン Pac Man
すず Suzu
グロブダー Grobder
--Note: Cameo. Need spelling confirmation.
ピノ Pino
アチャ Acha
クロービス Clovis
--Note: Cameo. Need spelling confirmation.
ワルキューレ Valkyrie
かげきよ Kagekiyo
--Note: Cameo. Is this what he's called in English?
モモ Momo
ワンダーモモ Wonder Momo (62 px)
サンドラ Sandra
--Note: Whirlo?
へいはち Heihachi
ながせれいこ Reiko Nagase (55 px)
ギル Gil
カイ Ki
バキュラ Bacura