Tales of Forum

I still don't know precisely when the full patch is going to be ready.

gogs is having computer trouble lately, and knowing his busy as hell lifestyle the last few years, I don't know when he's going to turn in the menu text edits. He was on his final draft for them last he mentioned them. As I've stated before, the majority of them as currently inserted in the game are a rough mess and not ready for prime time.

The main dialogue script is, I believe, in generally excellent shape. I'm currently working on getting the fourth draft inserted, and adding my own supplemental edits on top of it (not enough for me to call it a full-blown draft like draft 3, but might as well mention it).

The skit script is okay, but fairly rough in places. I haven't gotten a status update about the second draft, but here's hoping it's been getting worked on.

Habilain's been working his butt off getting some of the extras coded into the game. He's gotten in some dynamic grammar codes, dialogue text positioning codes, and conditional character name modifiers implemented. He's about to start implementing automatic text formatting.

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Is there much interest in a demo patch? After I finish inserting the fourth draft, it shouldn't take long to touch up the menu and skit text that (normally) appears during the first 90 minutes or so...

I don't now for the others, but I think releasing a beta patch that is completable might steal the thunder of the final release, or are you talking about a patch whose text only goes for the first 90 minutes or so?

If so I find the idea entertaining, specially if it has a "thanks for playing the demo, wait for the final release" message at the end. (can it be done?)


Other than that I'll say what I always do, and I'm sure you know even better than me... don't feel presured to deliver something; if the demo is something you want to do, go ahead and I'll play it, if not... don't. (I'm not trying to be harsh or demanding when I'm saying this, quite the oposite)

Please Cless-san...i've been waiting for so many years now...I first found the translation when I was 11, and I want to play it before I'm 20. :(  (19.6 right now D:)

A demo would be great. <3

From my point of view, we've been waiting a very, very long time for this patch (I've been waiting for at least 5 years), so maybe a "beta" patch would be in order at this point, assuming the main script is complete, and the skit script is in a reasonably understandable form. Make it, say, version 0.8, and ONLY insert the menu, skit, and main scripts, then with the 1.0 release have the full skit script and the "bonus features" that were planned.

It has been this long without a demo of any sort. I think we might as well wait for the finished product.

No, not a beta. If we were to release a demo patch, it'd include only the script files relevant to the first 90-120 minutes (through the present, plus maybe the scene upon arriving in the past). A note would be included in the final line of intended dialogue warning that any play beyond that point will eventually crash the game (the game in its current state tends to not play nicely with Japanese script files).

And indeed, I do think that a complete beta would steal the thunder of the final release, which is not what I want. I want the complete public release to be fully polished. A demo of the first part of the game would be easy enough to make reasonably polished enough, as nearly all of the bastard-to-localize crap appears much later.

As being what is most likely the longest-running, ACTIVE fan translation project ever, a part me at least wants to prove that it is not vaporware/shenanigans/a long-running troll/whatever the Internet thinks.

I understand what you're saying and the kind of pressure having a project for so long on your belt must be... but I don't think anyone with two brain cells would think that the project is vaporware.

I have nothing against the idea, but I'd like to be stopped on my tracks where the translated part ends, because I think, most people will continue playing it untill it crashes or something, providing they're liking what they're playing.

But I'm weird on that account since I actually finished ToP PSone in japanese without a guide some years ago (and can't read any japanese), so... I dunno, might be just me.

If it's called for, it'll take me all of about a minute to add a "crash the game" dialogue code. That'd certainly stop people in their tracks. Perhaps not the most elegant of solutions, but it works... Alternatively I might be able to do reset the console, but I'm not 100% sure on that...

EDIT: Thanks to a handy tip from Cless, I've implemented a soft reset from dialogue code. Hacking time was about five minutes, so more work than just crash the game, but it seems more professional.

yup! thanks for the heads up  ;D

It would be nice to release a demo, but only if you're certain that the release of the full patch will be this year ::)

I don't understand the logic in that but anyway... I think the demo patch is a good idea. So people can get a glimpse of the translated game and maybe report bugs or other kind of errors if any were encountered. I'd get my good old ps1 out of retirement just for this :)

What I mean is that a demo would most likely make you want to play the full game, so if the release takes too long after that... well I guess I understand myself... anyway downloading a demo is a personal choice so I'm not against it.

Okay, tentative demo plans:

0) For reference, this demo patch is NOT going to be a patch for the actual TGS 1998 demo disc. It's for the retail release.
1) Your disc image MUST be a 1:1 copy of the original game disc in bin/cue format (CRC32 407F6AD6), or the patch will not work.*
2) Will be distributed as an xdelta patch, with custom patching software (with a GUI) for Windows (xdelta is an open source format, so a patcher out there for your platform should exist for those who do not have access to Windows)
3) Only scripts relevant to the demo will be inserted
4) Save and Load functionality disabled
5) Soft reset wherever the end is determined to be (demo will tell you that it's over beforehand)
6) Aiming to release within the next two weeks

* I have recently become aware that a large, popular ROM/ISO site distributes a corrupted image of the game. Do not ask where to download a proper one.

I don't think so. As much as I trust Cless and his team and believe not even the most elaborate troll would be willing to keep a joke like this for so long and with so much detail/effort put into it without losing interest halfway through, part of me still wants to see something concrete to be 100% sure. Which is why I fully support the idea of releasing a demo. If it was a complete beta, on the other hand, I'd be against it - look at what happened to Transgen's Namco x Capcom project. Not a good idea, that's for sure.

Oh, there is a actual demo iso floating around? do you know what's it's length/differences from the final release? just curious :)I understand the reasoning of doing it that way, but... it's purpose is gonna be defeated by the fact a lot of people will be running it on a emulator with save states... won't make a difference for them and will make a difference for the minority playing on actual hardware.wow, that's fast.eBay! auctions.yahoo.co.jp!I don't know what happened with those dudes, but I just remembered what happened to those chrono trigger projects.

Couldn't a demo at this point... risk a cease and desist letter from bandai namco? Not that they can possibly not be aware of us up to this point but... perhaps they'll only "feel" it shouldn't happen "after all", and that they "might" still pursue the idea "after all" at the last hour? (by seeing buzz around it, mostly)

The stand alone demo disc is a bit of a curiosity, really. The demo was also present on a few magazine demo discs, but without the extra stuff the demo packs. In general, I guess the demo is pretty identical to the retail version, except from the fact that the skit portraits are rough sketches.  Forgot how far the demo goes, but it's a pretty lengthy demo actually.

The other stuff that came on the full sampler is pretty much the same type of bonus content you can find on the more recent Special DVDs and GUMMI DVDs.

Tales of Destiny also had such a sampler (two, actually), while Tales of Eternia had a full introduction book that came with a playable demo.


Not sure what he's referring to, but my impressions of the Namco X Capcom Transgen translation is that it's not exactly something I'd want to show off to public.  A lot of stuff needs heavy editing (I mean, it's beyond the point of babelfish at times), there's a lot of technical issues (dunno if they're blind towards control codes or something, but it almost seems like current linebreaks are limited to the original linebreaks of the Japanese version, so there's a lot of terribly presented text) and in general they just really need a lot of heavy polish and re-translating (+a lot of ironing out of minor/half-simple technical mumbo-jumbo)

To wrap it up short: It's as if they went ahead with the fishing without cleaning the aquarium.

No real offense to the guys at Transgen, I think it's awesome that more people get into the whole fan translation thing. But there's a lot to learn and self-critique/quality control is something everyone should take note of ;)


Yes, no, maybe, not really. Highly unlikely, actually.

The NxC translation is a mess like that because saito, the project leader, planned to have everyone help him by reporting bugs and spelling/grammar errors. Turned out very few people actually helped - most just disappeared after getting the patch. Just recently, two guys offered to proofread the whole script by themselves, so a higher quality patch is going to be released soon, but most players don't care anymore - they're satisfied with the beta they got. They don't even complain about the terrible state the translation's in... then again, it's partly their own fault, so I'm not sure if they even have the right to complain. :P

Anyway, that's the point I'm trying to make: most people won't care anymore once they get anything 100% playable, regardless of the state it's in. Releasing a beta of any kind is like asking everyone to lose interest in the final product.

I didn't know any of that, are those easy to buy online, in auctions and stuff? consider me very interested.

I recently sold a pair of ToD demos (on regular and one Famitsu version), together, for $125 on ebay. A friend of mine sold his ToP sampler for $70 not too long ago too.

They're pretty hard to come by on this side of the pond, but pop up every now and then for about the same price (or a tiny bit lower) overseas, but when you add up all the additional fees and stuff, you're pretty much back on that price, if not even more, unless you managed to somehow managed to bag yourself a nice deal.

I've still got a few Tales of Eternia "Introduction" books, though (+think I have a loose disc somewhere without a magazine to go with it) Those might be a tad bit easier to come by (cheaply, that is)

I see, thank you very much for the information.

I guess I'll start keeping an eye out for those :)

Actually, I have zero qualms with people using emulation savestates. Those will only function properly with the demo. There will be huge issues if not outright complete incompatibilities with imported/exported savestates from/to other versions.

What I'd take issue with is the loading of advanced saved games from other versions, mainly. That, and I'm thinking there's a good chance there will be differences in the parts the demo covers in the final version, and I won't want players to miss them.


That boat's already sailed, actually; there's already a full English version of this version of the game out there. A lot of people got their fix from that, as I'm fairly certain general interest steadily dropped off after its release. My desire to have it done my way is what keeps our project going, though. But I suppose releasing a complete beta of it will further undermine general interest in the full, polished release.

By and large I don't care that much what the size of our player base is, though. I started this project because I wanted to do it. And I'm not quitting until it's done.

^ you're right.

We've all waited like... what? 7 years now?

We can wait some months more :p

Cless, just one question, is the game now fully compatible with real ps1 hardware ?

It's been compatible with real hardware a while now. I should know; some of the problems took ages to work out...

Thanks for the answer habilain, that's good to know

I doubt Cless and co. would get a letter from Namco.  The patch still requires you to buy the game, and that only means more money in their pocket.  Patches are fine, it's only when you try to do something like, oh say, make an unofficial sequel to a popular series that the companies get pissy.



Edit:  And I'm not defending them at all, btw.  I waited 5 freakin years for that Chrono game.  F*** Squeenix.

Should make it known that I have the hacks necessary for the demo (disable save, disable load, and soft reset dialogue code) in my possession. Everything that matters is known to work on a real console.

We basically just need to finish tightening up the text that appears during the present. I mainly need to work on the scripts of the two dungeons that appear during that point, and patch up some of the really crappy description text in the menu for things that appear in that time as well. nusakan's almost finished with the second draft of the skit script.

Currently, most battle subtitles really suck, too...the phrasing is a little funny sounding, at least to me. I don't really want to blank them for the demo, so I hope we can come up with some better placeholders.

Cless -
I've never posted here, but I felt I should.
I've been watching this project since I was, if I'm remembering correctly, 12. I just turned 20 last week. Over the years I've felt MANY times this would be vaporware, but for 8 years it has sat in my bookmarks, waiting for any news, updates, etc. I'm extremely happy to see this finally so close to fruition. I'll admit I was PISSED when I saw absolute zero's translation come out. It was like a slap in the face to your project.
I'm ecstatic this is so close to completion. When this comes out, this will be only the second translation that I've followed to actually come out (first was Mother 3).

Thanks for all the years of work Cless, can't wait to play the final product!

One more demo update before release...

1) The text is just about ready. Mainly I'm researching description text with and comparing it with official releases and awaiting nusakan's script submissions. I'll also need to send him the menu text I edited to make sure I haven't accidentally inserted awkward phrasings or word choices.
2) The level cap has been lowered to 16. This should be plenty and most will probably finish it at a lower level than that. It's already pretty tough getting to 20+ during these parts of the game, anyway. This is mainly to prevent people from getting artes and titles not intended for the demo (by normal means).

Seems we're going to barely miss the tentative two-week release point, but, hey, it was merely tentative. On the other hand, I'm actually kinda surprised myself at how close my prediction was.

The demo's like 98% ready to go. I can't really figure out how to polish anything further at this time and am just about to finish all the preparations (ToP page update on the main site, front page news post is mostly typed, screenshots have been made, and the readme that's going to be included is done).

Just waiting on a couple things and we'll get this thing quickly tested and out!

I am looking forward to the demo. Hopefully there are many more like me who are simply waiting and lurking for the final product. Do not loose hope in your fan base, we are still here.

What type of feedback are you looking for from the demo? Or do you want us to just shut up and enjoy it? I would personally recommend the second option.

Dunno what Cless wants from it, but I think it'll be awesome when the public will get to see a lot of the stuff that's been done. There's been a lot of work put into it. People who are already familiar with the game will probably notice a few things. But for those who've never played it before; it'll be interesting to see how they see things and how they might respond to certain things (especially if pointed out to them).

Of course, no text is final, yet, but I guess we can always hope! ('Cause if the demo text passes the public appreciation test, that'll certainly raise Cless&Co's confidence as far as everything else goes :haha: )


As for feedback? I'm sure all sorts of feedback is welcome, as long as it's presented in a readable manner! (As in: Positive and Constructive feedback = More than welcome)

The staff members who still have things on their plate necessary for the demo appear to be very busy, so I'm not sure how much longer until it's going to be released. I'm back to work on inserting and making additions to draft 4 of the main dialogue script.

Might as well show off the screens now.

(http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo01.png) (http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo02.png)

(http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo03.png) (http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo04.png)

(http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo05.png) (http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo06.png)

(http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo07.png) (http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo08.png)

(http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo09.png) (http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo10.png)

(http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo11.png) (http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo12.png)

(http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo13.png) (http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo14.png)

(http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo15.png) (http://www.tales-cless.org/images/ToP_progress/topdemo16.png)


The latter, though any bug reports would be useful. I didn't find any during the two times I tested it on my PS2, though.

OMG!  This alone makes the wait worth it!  Although yes, I went ahead and played through on throughhim's version, I've continued to wait for your release in order to play it more thoroughly and stuff.  (basically just played straight through start to finish on throughhim's, didn't do any post-game bonus stuff either)

I don't think they're expecting anything.

It's more like a "we exist" proof of existance and stuff... as well as a sneak peak. Oh, and of course... because they can.

I think the text regarding abilities to be used when in battle by CPU, the emphasis applied to the word "Forbidden" is not that necessary, "disabled" i believe it would be best.

"Forbidden" has a too strong meaning, i am a native portuguese speaker, and "forbidden" is a degree much higher than a simple "not allowed".

I don't know what "forbidden" means for you native english speakers, but when brazilians when reads a forbidden sign, we feel/think something scary will happen when you ignore that forbidden warning, like "Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again"  :haha: :haha: :haha:

I know "Disabled" has other uses, like people who live in whellchairs, etc. In Portuguese has another word for it, translate "disabled people" directly and listener will have a hard time to understand, this has another term. But enabled/disabled has many uses, like computer BIOSes have bunch of things to enable/disable.
I don't know how you guys feel when you read "disabled" somewhere, but i think that word would suit this line best.

Considering this a localization project, not just a direct translation, i think my comment here worth something to consider.

Best Regards; André Sato.

You know, I'm a native Portuguese speaker as well (albeit a European Portuguese one), as seem to be a lot of people out here (Portuguese speakers) :x and I certainly don't feel the same way about that as you.

I mean, it's like saying "don't use the world ordinary in english, it always reminds me of being yelled at in portuguese".


For non-portuguese speakers:

Ordinary: something normal
Ordinário: either someone that shows bad education or regarding talking with a slang language as a basis


You'll get used to it, it's a translation into english by english speakers/as their first language (even if it isn't the drafts are being done from that perspective, as they should). So asking for Forbidden not to be used because of the way it can sound in portuguese... I don't feel that's really valid; could be for a brazilian portuguese translation, perhaps. But this isn't it.

Hurrah for nitpicking already. "Disabled" sounds a lot more mechanical of a word choice than I was aiming for. Disallowed is possible, but doesn't make that significant of difference to me. Forbid also has a connotation of being a command, which is kind of the point. Maybe it should be Permitted/Forbidden. :P

I dunno' about you guys, but sometimes I get so annoyed by an AI-controlled character spamming a spell I don't want them to cast, that I'll be saying in my head "I forbid you from using this freakin' skill/spell!" (or something to that effect) when I disable it in that menu. So in that sense, the usage is rather appropriate, if a little contextually silly.

Although I am fine with both forbidden and disabled, it should be noted that the official localizations used disabled, for whatever that is worth. :p

(If not all, then most)

Enabled and Disabled seem to make the most sense in usage.  Forbidden strikes me as something used for the tales of destiny unable to read tablet thus learn skill type of thing. Ie you are forbidden to use this you don't have a choice in the matter and it feels like there should be no way to enable or change that on your own.

To that, I say meh. Enabled and disabled both sound mechanical, and I don't like that. They don't give off the feeling that you're verbally telling your allies what they can and cannot use. In the grand scheme of things, it's a trivial thing, though. I'd just rather avoid mechanical terms for this. Heck, mechanical terms would also sound terribly awkward in the tutorial after Mint joins.

Anyway, just recently, I decided that we'd be making exceptions to the official continuity rule when it comes to most long-winded menu text (i.e. descriptions), aside from key terminology. Though the demo will be using many of them as placeholders, the final patch won't be using the official translated descriptions of items and such. There is actually some standardization across the official releases (if anyone actually noticed), but we don't really like it that much; a lot of the descriptions actually get a bit butchered in the official localizations. They tend to toss out puns and other details that they might have decided were trivial or something...

excluded, restricted, prohibited, etc

Some of the screenshots have been refreshed...

I like the change to restricted it fits much better

I liked forbidden :(

But either way is good.

There's no way to please everyone ;D

^ Correct.

Either translation's fine; continue to go with your instincts, Cless.

I don't recall anyone inquiring about this.

Tales of Phantasia's page on the website mentions that the technical ring will be available from the start, I think. Will it also be available from the start in the demo release?

Yep; that was implemented long ago. Not going to change it for the demo.

Not that it really matters, but I got to say that I like forbidden (Or Disallowed since you used allowed) more then restricted. ;)

More seriously though, your reasoning against disabled sounds fine to me, as the others are saying, whatever you choose will be fine.  All that matters is that we can finally sink our teeth into it.  ;D  (Well into the demo that is)

nusakan turned in the second draft of the skit script last night, and I just rewrote a good number of skit lines in the demo to be around the same level as the main script. Hell, the skit screenshot I made for this update is now outdated. :P

There's a very easy-to-miss skit for this point of the game I still don't completely understand though. It might be accurately localized, but I'm not totally sure of the implications of the last lines of it. (EDIT: I think I've got it now)

Releasing tonight, probably...

Is there gonna be a update for the main page? :D

Release candidate has been sent out.


I prepared one a couple weeks ago.

What good timing, I just got my copy of ToP PS1 in the mail today.  :D

Make it early to mid-day tomorrow. I'm basically sitting on the demo release now, but I need to go to bed and don't want to (possibly) wake up a to a zillion questions.