Status and demo patch contemplation (July 12th, 2009)

[Cless]

I still don't know precisely when the full patch is going to be ready.

gogs is having computer trouble lately, and knowing his busy as hell lifestyle the last few years, I don't know when he's going to turn in the menu text edits. He was on his final draft for them last he mentioned them. As I've stated before, the majority of them as currently inserted in the game are a rough mess and not ready for prime time.

The main dialogue script is, I believe, in generally excellent shape. I'm currently working on getting the fourth draft inserted, and adding my own supplemental edits on top of it (not enough for me to call it a full-blown draft like draft 3, but might as well mention it).

The skit script is okay, but fairly rough in places. I haven't gotten a status update about the second draft, but here's hoping it's been getting worked on.

Habilain's been working his butt off getting some of the extras coded into the game. He's gotten in some dynamic grammar codes, dialogue text positioning codes, and conditional character name modifiers implemented. He's about to start implementing automatic text formatting.


Is there much interest in a demo patch? After I finish inserting the fourth draft, it shouldn't take long to touch up the menu and skit text that (normally) appears during the first 90 minutes or so...

[pedrocasilva]

Is there much interest in a demo patch? After I finish inserting the fourth draft, it shouldn't take long to touch up the menu and skit text that (normally) appears during the first 90 minutes or so...

I don't now for the others, but I think releasing a beta patch that is completable might steal the thunder of the final release, or are you talking about a patch whose text only goes for the first 90 minutes or so?

If so I find the idea entertaining, specially if it has a "thanks for playing the demo, wait for the final release" message at the end. (can it be done?)


Other than that I'll say what I always do, and I'm sure you know even better than me... don't feel presured to deliver something; if the demo is something you want to do, go ahead and I'll play it, if not... don't. (I'm not trying to be harsh or demanding when I'm saying this, quite the oposite)

[leon.dx]

Please Cless-san...i've been waiting for so many years now...I first found the translation when I was 11, and I want to play it before I'm 20.   (19.6 right now D:)

A demo would be great. <3

[Teffy]

From my point of view, we've been waiting a very, very long time for this patch (I've been waiting for at least 5 years), so maybe a "beta" patch would be in order at this point, assuming the main script is complete, and the skit script is in a reasonably understandable form. Make it, say, version 0.8, and ONLY insert the menu, skit, and main scripts, then with the 1.0 release have the full skit script and the "bonus features" that were planned.

[Vaan]

It has been this long without a demo of any sort. I think we might as well wait for the finished product.

[Cless]

No, not a beta. If we were to release a demo patch, it'd include only the script files relevant to the first 90-120 minutes (through the present, plus maybe the scene upon arriving in the past). A note would be included in the final line of intended dialogue warning that any play beyond that point will eventually crash the game (the game in its current state tends to not play nicely with Japanese script files).

And indeed, I do think that a complete beta would steal the thunder of the final release, which is not what I want. I want the complete public release to be fully polished. A demo of the first part of the game would be easy enough to make reasonably polished enough, as nearly all of the bastard-to-localize crap appears much later.

As being what is most likely the longest-running, ACTIVE fan translation project ever, a part me at least wants to prove that it is not vaporware/shenanigans/a long-running troll/whatever the Internet thinks.

[pedrocasilva]

As being what is most likely the longest-running, ACTIVE fan translation project ever, a part me at least wants to prove that it is not vaporware/shenanigans/a long-running troll/whatever the Internet thinks.

I understand what you're saying and the kind of pressure having a project for so long on your belt must be... but I don't think anyone with two brain cells would think that the project is vaporware.

I have nothing against the idea, but I'd like to be stopped on my tracks where the translated part ends, because I think, most people will continue playing it untill it crashes or something, providing they're liking what they're playing.

But I'm weird on that account since I actually finished ToP PSone in japanese without a guide some years ago (and can't read any japanese), so... I dunno, might be just me.

[habilain]

If it's called for, it'll take me all of about a minute to add a "crash the game" dialogue code. That'd certainly stop people in their tracks. Perhaps not the most elegant of solutions, but it works... Alternatively I might be able to do reset the console, but I'm not 100% sure on that...

EDIT: Thanks to a handy tip from Cless, I've implemented a soft reset from dialogue code. Hacking time was about five minutes, so more work than just crash the game, but it seems more professional.

[pedrocasilva]

If it's called for, it'll take me all of about a minute to add a "crash the game" dialogue code. That'd certainly stop people in their tracks. Perhaps not the most elegant of solutions, but it works... Alternatively I might be able to do reset the console, but I'm not 100% sure on that...

EDIT: Thanks to a handy tip from Cless, I've implemented a soft reset from dialogue code. Hacking time was about five minutes, so more work than just crash the game, but it seems more professional.

yup! thanks for the heads up 

[Demon000]

It would be nice to release a demo, but only if you're certain that the release of the full patch will be this year

[Leiw]

It would be nice to release a demo, but only if you're certain that the release of the full patch will be this year

I don't understand the logic in that but anyway... I think the demo patch is a good idea. So people can get a glimpse of the translated game and maybe report bugs or other kind of errors if any were encountered. I'd get my good old ps1 out of retirement just for this

[Demon000]

I don't understand the logic in that but anyway...

What I mean is that a demo would most likely make you want to play the full game, so if the release takes too long after that... well I guess I understand myself... anyway downloading a demo is a personal choice so I'm not against it.

[Cless]

Okay, tentative demo plans:

0) For reference, this demo patch is NOT going to be a patch for the actual TGS 1998 demo disc. It's for the retail release.
1) Your disc image MUST be a 1:1 copy of the original game disc in bin/cue format (CRC32 407F6AD6), or the patch will not work.*
2) Will be distributed as an xdelta patch, with custom patching software (with a GUI) for Windows (xdelta is an open source format, so a patcher out there for your platform should exist for those who do not have access to Windows)
3) Only scripts relevant to the demo will be inserted
4) Save and Load functionality disabled
5) Soft reset wherever the end is determined to be (demo will tell you that it's over beforehand)
6) Aiming to release within the next two weeks

* I have recently become aware that a large, popular ROM/ISO site distributes a corrupted image of the game. Do not ask where to download a proper one.

[ForceCube]

but I don't think anyone with two brain cells would think that the project is vaporware.

I don't think so. As much as I trust Cless and his team and believe not even the most elaborate troll would be willing to keep a joke like this for so long and with so much detail/effort put into it without losing interest halfway through, part of me still wants to see something concrete to be 100% sure. Which is why I fully support the idea of releasing a demo. If it was a complete beta, on the other hand, I'd be against it - look at what happened to Transgen's Namco x Capcom project. Not a good idea, that's for sure.

[pedrocasilva]

0) For reference, this demo patch is NOT going to be a patch for the actual TGS 1998 demo disc. It's for the retail release.

Oh, there is a actual demo iso floating around? do you know what's it's length/differences from the final release? just curious

4) Save and Load functionality disabled

I understand the reasoning of doing it that way, but... it's purpose is gonna be defeated by the fact a lot of people will be running it on a emulator with save states... won't make a difference for them and will make a difference for the minority playing on actual hardware.

6) Aiming to release within the next two weeks

wow, that's fast.

* I have recently become aware that a large, popular ROM/ISO site distributes a corrupted image of the game. Do not ask where to download a proper one.

eBay! auctions.yahoo.co.jp!

look at what happened to Transgen's Namco x Capcom project. Not a good idea, that's for sure.

I don't know what happened with those dudes, but I just remembered what happened to those chrono trigger projects.

Couldn't a demo at this point... risk a cease and desist letter from bandai namco? Not that they can possibly not be aware of us up to this point but... perhaps they'll only "feel" it shouldn't happen "after all", and that they "might" still pursue the idea "after all" at the last hour? (by seeing buzz around it, mostly)

[Carnivol]

Oh, there is a actual demo iso floating around? do you know what's it's length/differences from the final release? just curious

The stand alone demo disc is a bit of a curiosity, really. The demo was also present on a few magazine demo discs, but without the extra stuff the demo packs. In general, I guess the demo is pretty identical to the retail version, except from the fact that the skit portraits are rough sketches.  Forgot how far the demo goes, but it's a pretty lengthy demo actually.

The other stuff that came on the full sampler is pretty much the same type of bonus content you can find on the more recent Special DVDs and GUMMI DVDs.

Tales of Destiny also had such a sampler (two, actually), while Tales of Eternia had a full introduction book that came with a playable demo.

I don't know what happened with those dudes, but I just remembered what happened to those chrono trigger projects.

Not sure what he's referring to, but my impressions of the Namco X Capcom Transgen translation is that it's not exactly something I'd want to show off to public.  A lot of stuff needs heavy editing (I mean, it's beyond the point of babelfish at times), there's a lot of technical issues (dunno if they're blind towards control codes or something, but it almost seems like current linebreaks are limited to the original linebreaks of the Japanese version, so there's a lot of terribly presented text) and in general they just really need a lot of heavy polish and re-translating (+a lot of ironing out of minor/half-simple technical mumbo-jumbo)

To wrap it up short: It's as if they went ahead with the fishing without cleaning the aquarium.

No real offense to the guys at Transgen, I think it's awesome that more people get into the whole fan translation thing. But there's a lot to learn and self-critique/quality control is something everyone should take note of

Couldn't a demo at this point... risk a cease and desist letter from bandai namco? Not that they can possibly not be aware of us up to this point but... perhaps they'll only "feel" it shouldn't happen "after all", and that they "might" still pursue the idea "after all" at the last hour? (by seeing buzz around it, mostly)

Yes, no, maybe, not really. Highly unlikely, actually.