Official Tales of Phantasia TO-DO list (last update: May 7th, 2012)

[Cless]

I've followed this project for a few years and have seen marginal improvements commented on here and think the translation should have shipped out on the 2nd script pass.

Absolutely not.

The test you received was hardly representative of the state things were in as of that period. The script didn't even begin to get flavored until the third and fourth passes.

The whole point of the proofreader test was to find typos, anyway. The vast majority of the script is final.

[Penance]

The whole point of the proofreader test was to find typos, anyway. The vast majority of the script is final.

Then why has it taken this long to do it?

[Oshihiro]

Hey, everyone.

I've been following you all for some time now (a few years or so), ever since I learned about your group. I remember playing the translated version of Tales of Phantasia for the SNES by DeJap a long time ago. Though it was fun being able to play a translated version of a game that originally never made it over seas, like most RPGs then, I wasn't very fond of the script the team made for the game. I didn't feel it held true to the original script, which I'm sure did not include the main characters slurring curse words during certain situations...

Regardless, I ended up waiting and playing the game years later on the GBA when it first came out. I know a lot of you are probably cringing, the fact that they used the Playstation sprites for the very small screen the GBA provided, but I still fell in love with this game. Still, to this day, this is my favorite Tales game.

I've been aware that there is another group who has already fully translated the PSX version of this game, but I have never played it. I choose not to. I registered today just to tell you guys that I am fully supportive of your project and all that you do. I want to remain loyal to Phantasian Productions for all the hard work you have gone through and for the fact that this project has been worked on for the past 10 years+, for what is, in your eyes, the perfect translation of Phantasia. And no, no matter how many times my friend reminds me that Absolute Zero already has a translation that I can play at any time, I will continue to tell him, "No shut up you don't know what you're talking about."

Thank you Cless and the rest of the team. I may not be posting very often, but you can believe that I will be continuing to wait very patiently for this project to be perfect and 100%.

The best of luck.

[Cless]

Then why has it taken this long to do it?

Because it wasn't fully ready for it until now?

[Soldatoflife]

I'm simply posting to cheer Cless and the team onwards, as me and a friend have been waiting since 2001 for this to one day see the light, and we're still checking these forums every week or so.

I still want to know what happens after getting lost in the Dwarves cavern, which is the last spot in the game I ever made it to before I heard of this project and chose to wait for this before continuing the game to enjoy a thorough translation.

[Bartlebycs]

I still want to know what happens after getting lost in the Dwarves cavern, which is the last spot in the game I ever made it to before I heard of this project and chose to wait for this before continuing the game to enjoy a thorough translation.

They get lost in a forest, then a battlefield, then a castle...  Cless doesn't have a very good sense of direction

[Destrudo]

I know a lot of you are probably cringing, the fact that they used the Playstation sprites for the very small screen the GBA provided, but I still fell in love with this game.

I think the sprites for the GBA were only based off the PS1 remake (remade again, I guess), but the field and graphics were directly recycled from the snes actually.

Wiki:

This was the third version of the game, combining various elements from both the original Super Famicom iteration and the PS1 remake: the sprites and battle graphics were based on the PS1 remake, but the opening sequence, map and field graphics were directly recycled from the Super Famicom version.

It was ok, screen size was no biggie, but waaaay to oversaturated in my opinion (looked bright as hell since GBA wasn't backlit @ the time, unless you change the graphics on emus :/ ), plus there was pointless name changes...

nothing like the PSX to me 

[steamwolf]

Then why has it taken this long to do it?

Perhaps I'm too late or not qualified to speak on this matter, but I'd say the biggest reason is unforeseen issues. Hard drive problems, losing information, people going MIA, quitting, becoming too busy with every day life etc etc...Cless isn't paying anyone for this, and he's not making money off the project. Were this an official translation with a professional team it'd take probably six months to a year due to the fact that they're professionals being PAID for their time. But they are not, this is pretty much a community driven fan project since the beginning and that won't change (Unless NamcoBandai decides to hire everyone here to officially do it. Fat chance.) and no one has the right to demand they cut out their personal and work lives for the sake of us being able to play a video game from 1998. Absolute Zero gave us a quick translation so that's there for those who want it. Myself? I've waited for this and been a rather silent supporter since 2003 so I think I'll just keep waiting. If people can wait ten years for Marvel vs Capcom 3, I can wait 7+ for ToP PSX (And hopefully no more than that). I think the time and effort put behind Phantasian Productions' project makes it the more worthwhile of the two translations. To quote Miyamoto: "A rushed game is always a bad game. But a delayed game will become a good game."

[Sirius9]

While I agree with just about everything steamwolf has said, I would like to point out that whether you think the AZ version was "rushed" or not it is most certainly not bad.  

Full disclosure: I was eager to get involved with this project because I played the AZ version and wanted something a little more localized.  More free with the workings of jokes and idioms, more individuality to character voices, that sort of thing.  But editing for Cless has made me realize something about localizing games: it's kind of hard.  It just isn't easy to translate from Japanese to English without losing some of the life of the original material. Having gained that knowledge, I now appreciate throughhim's work a great deal more than I did before (though I certainly never thought it was bad).  Considering how quickly it was done, and how faithful it is to the original Japanese it is very good indeed.  I hope that the two patches will complement each other.  One patch for those who prefer closer adherence to the Japanese, and one for those who would like a more localized experience.  

tl;dr: Props to Absolute Zero because their patch of this game is good.  I say the PP version is different, not better.

[Cless]

But editing for Cless has made me realize something about localizing games: it's kind of hard.

It's even harder when you consider that none of our editors have had much past experience writing this kind of script. This long, exhaustive process has been a big learning experience for me.

Base translation: Lifeless, dry, and inconsistent. I didn't think too much of it or think too hard about it when it was completed three years ago. I really believed we were almost done. Ugh.

First draft: Largely a proofread of the base translation, with occasional lines modified for a little bit of flavor. Still dry and horrifically inconsistent overall, though. nusakan's larger modifications started inspiring me to aim higher. I started paying more attention to the writing quality of professional localizations and realized we were quite far behind even average ones. I wasn't sure if it was the game's fault or what that the script was so poor overall.

Second draft: Much the same as the first draft. Another proofreading pass with a few lines rewritten here and there. Still far from good. The GBA script was still on a notably higher level (it's quite accurate outside the whole Kangaroo thing that everyone dismisses it for).

Third draft: This is where I stepped in for the first time and tried my own hand at this editing thing. The script had a major shift here. I tried my hand at...writing. If I remember correctly, I rewrote, what, at least half of the script? I wanted to stamp out the dryness, improve dialogue flow, and attempt to give the characters more consistent personalities. It was an attempt, and as I would soon find out, not a very good one. A lot of what I wrote was overdone, clunky, and frankly, very embarrassing. It was a necessary step, however, if I wanted to get better at this. Also, I did heavy analysis of the script to make sure things made actual sense, and in the end, working with our translator, dozens of translation errors were identified and worked out.

Fourth draft: nusakan proofread everything I had done, and did what he could to complement it with new edits.

Fifth draft: Internally called the fourth draft addendum. Realizing many of my mistakes with nusakan's commentary, I did loads of cleanup and tightening of third draft rewrites, and rewrote many of the previously untouched lines for further polish and consistency. The demo patch was based on an early version of this pass, if I recall correctly. I'm really starting to feel quite burned out at this point, and accomplishing things started taking longer than ever, which was felt painfully here and afterward.

Sixth draft: Yes, there are still plenty of rough points in the script! Mint's personality is so damn near one-dimensional that it's really difficult to write lines for her that don't sound horrifically robotic without stepping out of bounds; we had no ideas left. Also needed some assistance with writing comedy (cause that's just something I can't and won't ever do well). This is where Sirius comes into this. She gave localization/writing suggestions on countless lines. She did far more for this script than she probably thinks she did.

Seventh draft: Sirius' suggestions and commentary were a big boost and inspiration to me, and I wanted to go through things thoroughly one more time based on that. Finally, I fixed most of the remaining issues with Mint, and I had gotten a much, much clearer idea of what I wanted Klarth to be. Chester got some good refinement, too. Last remaining lines I considered clunky and/or terribly embarrassing weeded out.

Final draft: This is it. This was mainly to correct the lingering issues still present in the script; lots of various little things like punctuation consistency, terminology consistency, and quite a few dumb things that required a lot of thought that nobody wanted to set time aside for to figure out what to do with. As I went along, I did further polish up a handful of lines here and there if I had immediate, worthwhile ideas. A fresh mind after a lot of time away from the script just inspires new ideas like that. You can't help putting them to use.

Avarice should be proofreading the pieces of the above that I have sent him. What I receive back from him is what is going in the final patch. Period.

For what it's worth, the skit script was completed in far fewer drafts. I set it aside after the second draft and came back to it after all the experience I gained editing the main script. It went very smoothly and I'm satisfied with the result.

[Penance]

Cless, do you use Atlas for Tales of Phantasia's menus?

[throughhim413]

Having gained that knowledge, I now appreciate throughhim's work a great deal more than I did before (though I certainly never thought it was bad).  Considering how quickly it was done, and how faithful it is to the original Japanese it is very good indeed.  I hope that the two patches will complement each other.  One patch for those who prefer closer adherence to the Japanese, and one for those who would like a more localized experience.  

tl;dr: Props to Absolute Zero because their patch of this game is good.  I say the PP version is different, not better.

Wow, that might be the nicest thing anyone has ever said. If my translation in any way helped to inspire people like yourself who are now working to help offer Tales fans more opportunities to play the games in English, it was completely worth the effort. And I absolutely share your belief that there is room for both translations to coexist.

Very interesting to read about the evolution of the PP Phantasia script as well. I'm always interest to learn more about the inner workings of other large localization efforts. Kind of amazing how many different ways there are of doing things when we're all theoretically doing the same work. But in any case, keep up the good work, you're almost there!

(I want to write more, but I'm already running late for work. Haha.)

[home_run758]

Fantastic glimpse behind the scenes. Great to see things wrapping up and absolutely cannot wait to play. Great work so far, and I'm sure it'll be clearly visible 

[Cheetah]

That was a very interesting and informative post Cless, I appreciated the inside look as well.

[mikeyramone]

Thanx for that insight in the process Cless. It sounds like there was a learning curve in it for you personaly too. Am I wrong in thinking that future projects should be done in fewer drafts (no guarantees fcourse)?

Good luck with the final stretch! Looking forward to the release.

[Cless]

Cless, do you use Atlas for Tales of Phantasia's menus?

That I do.

Am I wrong in thinking that future projects should be done in fewer drafts (no guarantees fcourse)?

It's hard to say right now. There are too many variables. In any case, I'd greatly prefer not to be one of the main creative forces behind the script next time around; I'd rather find someone who's a natural at writing. It's a demanding task for someone who isn't, let me tell you. Although in that situation, I'd probably still be doing reviews and QC of the work turned in. Hopefully, whoever would be writing would also be familiar enough with the game(s) and character traits, because that's always a huge, huge, HUGE plus.