Would a PSP be worth the cost?

[Cless]

I remember someone reporting awhile back that clocking the PSP to 333MHz made some Grand Theft Auto game run at a much better framerate. I've also seen some small speedups on some little things, i.e. the battle load swirl was a lot faster in ToP FVE at 333MHz, incidentally causing the battles to load more quickly.

[Gamesoul Master]

Well, to start with the easy one... Snes9xTYLsmcm Test 5 doesn't really seem to fix the few issues mentioned earlier. Still the best version of course, but not good enough of course (I hadn't tried the games mentioned because I had figured they'd still be slow... didn't know Star Ocean didn't run). I'll have to see if I can find some way for Star Ocean to run though... that'd be interesting.

On to the question of "overclocking" the processor for FFT:WotL... it didn't work at all. But in the process of testing it, I figured out why.

If you turn on the FPS display, you'll notice some interesting results. The game doesn't use the same FPS for everything. On the world map, it runs at 120 FPS, as well as during most of the formation screens. In battle, it uses 30 and 60 FPS, depending on whether you're looking through a menu or just moving around the map. But the most interesting part is that, during the battle sequences that suffer so much slowdown, it runs at 15 FPS. And while 30, 60, and 120 seem to be adjusted so that running speed is still 100% of what it should be, the battle sequences are not.

So basically, no amount of RAM or CPU power or anything like that will help, because it's a problem of the programmers having the battle sequences running at an unintended FPS. I'm guessing they wanted them running at 30 FPS, since it seems like they run at about half speed. The only thing that could be done, is if somebody could create a patch or code that forces them to run at 30 FPS instead of 15.

And in case there is question about the numbers... at 333 Mhz, the processor was only at about 20% utilization. The highest I ever saw it go was around 50% in the menus (in the formation screen... possibly in battle too, but overall, that's the highest I ever saw it go).

[pedrocasilva]

Well, to start with the easy one... Snes9xTYLsmcm Test 5 doesn't really seem to fix the few issues mentioned earlier. Still the best version of course, but not good enough of course (I hadn't tried the games mentioned because I had figured they'd still be slow... didn't know Star Ocean didn't run). I'll have to see if I can find some way for Star Ocean to run though... that'd be interesting.

Indeed, I checked now, I'm using that version. I have lots of issues. I mean, not to nitpick it works, but it's disheartning that we know it could emulate snes 100% considering it runs stuff like... chrono cross at full speed (drools)

If only someone would really just... go for it. GP2X has Squidge SNES I believe wouldn't that be a better fit? or SNESadvance and it's derivates, at least we would be starting from less powerful platforms and build up on that.

On to the question of "overclocking" the processor for FFT:WotL... it didn't work at all. But in the process of testing it, I figured out why.

If you turn on the FPS display, you'll notice some interesting results. The game doesn't use the same FPS for everything. On the world map, it runs at 120 FPS, as well as during most of the formation screens. In battle, it uses 30 and 60 FPS, depending on whether you're looking through a menu or just moving around the map. But the most interesting part is that, during the battle sequences that suffer so much slowdown, it runs at 15 FPS. And while 30, 60, and 120 seem to be adjusted so that running speed is still 100% of what it should be, the battle sequences are not.

So basically, no amount of RAM or CPU power or anything like that will help, because it's a problem of the programmers having the battle sequences running at an unintended FPS. I'm guessing they wanted them running at 30 FPS, since it seems like they run at about half speed. The only thing that could be done, is if somebody could create a patch or code that forces them to run at 30 FPS instead of 15.

And in case there is question about the numbers... at 333 Mhz, the processor was only at about 20% utilization. The highest I ever saw it go was around 50% in the menus (in the formation screen... possibly in battle too, but overall, that's the highest I ever saw it go).

Wow, you know how to measure that stuff (never explored it) is it through the vhs plugin thingy?

Knowing what you uncovered I'm staying far, far away from it though, thank god I have my FFT eboot. Shame since the new translation was tempting me. The patch would be a god send but I have doubts it'll ever happen.

Cheers for checking it though, much apreciated.

[Cless]

If you turn on the FPS display, you'll notice some interesting results. The game doesn't use the same FPS for everything. On the world map, it runs at 120 FPS, as well as during most of the formation screens. In battle, it uses 30 and 60 FPS, depending on whether you're looking through a menu or just moving around the map. But the most interesting part is that, during the battle sequences that suffer so much slowdown, it runs at 15 FPS. And while 30, 60, and 120 seem to be adjusted so that running speed is still 100% of what it should be, the battle sequences are not.

So basically, no amount of RAM or CPU power or anything like that will help, because it's a problem of the programmers having the battle sequences running at an unintended FPS. I'm guessing they wanted them running at 30 FPS, since it seems like they run at about half speed. The only thing that could be done, is if somebody could create a patch or code that forces them to run at 30 FPS instead of 15.

And in case there is question about the numbers... at 333 Mhz, the processor was only at about 20% utilization. The highest I ever saw it go was around 50% in the menus (in the formation screen... possibly in battle too, but overall, that's the highest I ever saw it go).

So it just locks the framerate depending on different contexts. That's REALLY lame. I just can't understand how they couldn't get a perfect 1:1 port on the thing. Screams of incompetence. Namco and NIS have had success getting their 2D PS2 games running perfectly on the thing!

Hell, Tales of Phantasia FVE seems to be little more than a high-level recompile of the PSX version with a few mods. That game runs almost perfectly even if you underclock the CPU to 75MHz. I think there was only one part of gameplay that had a little bit of slowdown at that clock rate, which was completely eliminated at the next step, 133MHz I think it was.

It should be really embarrassing for Square/TOSE that the original PS1 game runs better through an emulator on the same hardware. Someone should try hacking the relevant parts of the PSP script into the PS1 version.

[Joseph]

Why does Square still hire those guys to do their ports? It's like they don't read reviews or fan feedback or anything.

[pedrocasilva]

Why does Square still hire those guys to do their ports? It's like they don't read reviews or fan feedback or anything.

TOSE? because it's CHEAP :p

TOSE did the PSP Star Ocean remakes too. (and they were behing hideous ports like Tales of Phantasia GBA, FF6 GBA, Chrono Trigger PSone, Valkyrie Profile PSP, etc)

Seriously though, it's not just TOSE's fault, I'd say it's Square-Enix quality control too, they must have pretty short deadlines and are essentially hiring them to do a quick and dirty port, of course it'll be subpar next to what it could be, BUT...

[andwhyisit]

The PSP has some awesome games in its backlog that no-one knows about. Its a shame really.

[pedrocasilva]

So it just locks the framerate depending on different contexts. That's REALLY lame. I just can't understand how they couldn't get a perfect 1:1 port on the thing. Screams of incompetence. Namco and NIS have had success getting their 2D PS2 games running perfectly on the thing!

I'm pretty sure that even stuff like Tales of the Abyss  (low polygon game ahoy) could run pretty well on the PSP, in fact... It should be more of a Playstation Port-able, hell it's getting yearly ports of need for speed and crap, they should port some mid range ps2 3D stuff too while they're at it. (but I digress)

This said I wouldn't ever prefer a PSP version to a PS2 version, but hey, it's portable.

Hell, Tales of Phantasia FVE seems to be little more than a high-level recompile of the PSX version with a few mods. That game runs almost perfectly even if you underclock the CPU to 75MHz. I think there was only one part of gameplay that had a little bit of slowdown at that clock rate, which was completely eliminated at the next step, 133MHz I think it was.

Wow, I seriously wouldn't mind more games being optimized for 75 MHz, seems like most of the time they just waste resources on it, at least that way I can spare my battery.

It should be really embarrassing for Square/TOSE that the original PS1 game runs better through an emulator on the same hardware. Someone should try hacking the relevant parts of the PSP script into the PS1 version.

But from "should" to someone doing it... goes a long way.

And I say, if someone could do that or a good snes emulator... they should go for the later. (ToP SNES runs worse than the emulated PSone one!)

But yeah, for a commercial game it's embarassing.

The PSP has some awesome games in its backlog that no-one knows about. Its a shame really.

And those are?

You never know if we know then or not, if you don't refer to them directly.

Most platforms have awesome games in the backlog though, but they're just that, backlog.

[andwhyisit]

Most platforms have awesome games in the backlog though, but they're just that, backlog.

Well I have Gurumin, Size Matters, LocoRoco, Patapon, Daxter, Crisis Core, Popolocrois (I know alot was cut out but if you are new to the series you will fall in love with it), Tales of the World, GTA: Vice City Stories. I can't remember the rest but all are good games. I've also heard that Crush, Brave Story, Space Invaders Extreme, God of War:CoO, Monster Hunter and Jeanne d'Arc are good also. Since Jeanne d'Arc hit the PS Store recently it won't be long before I get it. Too bad that Space Invaders Extreme is impossible to find though. Upcoming anticipated games are Birth by Sleep, Parasite Eve: 3rd Birthday, Star Ocean: First Departure, Dissidia, FFXIII: Agito, etc. Lots of quality games are lined up for late this year or next year. The trouble is having to wait for them.

And I say, if someone could do that or a good snes emulator... they should go for the later. (ToP SNES runs worse than the emulated PSone one!)

You forget that Sony developed the PS1 emulator.

TOSE did the PSP Star Ocean remakes too. (and they were behing hideous ports like Tales of Phantasia GBA, FF6 GBA, Chrono Trigger PSone, Valkyrie Profile PSP, etc)

I disagree. The SO2 port wasn't worth the effort but the SO1 port isn't a port at all but a full on remake!

[pedrocasilva]

Well I have Gurumin, Size Matters, LocoRoco, Patapon, Daxter, Crisis Core, Popolocrois (I know alot was cut out but if you are new to the series you will fall in love with it), Tales of the World, GTA: Vice City Stories. I can't remember the rest but all are good games. I've also heard that Crush, Brave Story, Space Invaders Extreme, God of War:CoO, Monster Hunter and Jeanne d'Arc are good also. Since Jeanne d'Arc hit the PS Store recently it won't be long before I get it. Too bad that Space Invaders Extreme is impossible to find though. Upcoming anticipated games are Birth by Sleep, Parasite Eve: 3rd Birthday, Star Ocean: First Departure, Dissidia, FFXIII: Agito, etc. Lots of quality games are lined up for late this year or next year. The trouble is having to wait for them.

Good list.

You forget that Sony developed the PS1 emulator.

I didn't forget that, but we aren't talking about a system like PSone power-wise, we're talking about the generation prior to it... And one machine that has lots of documentation around and was totally reverse engineered... But it's running worse.

GBA/DS have their own SNES emulator, sure the console lacks power, but it does a decent job, put that on the PSP and it'll fly, same for GP2X's SquidgeSNES.

It's just a bad choice for porting, and lack of optimization in shrinking down the software.

I disagree. The SO2 port wasn't worth the effort but the SO1 port isn't a port at all but a full on remake!

Oh, I wasn't saying the SO's are hideous, just the others

(I heard SO remake has slowdown in battles though)

[andwhyisit]

GBA/DS have their own SNES emulator, sure the console lacks power, but it does a decent job, put that on the PSP and it'll fly, same for GP2X's SquidgeSNES.

Yeah it is true. SNES emulation on the PSP needs to be improved upon. But you can get any game 'cept for Yoshi's Island to run fullspeed just by tweaking the settings. I got SO1 working no problem on it. But I would have to say, the PSP has brilliant GBA (gPSP) and MegaDrive/SegaCD (Picodrive) emulators made for it.

Good list.I didn't forget that, but we aren't talking about a system like PSone power-wise, we're talking about the generation prior to it...

Actually the PSP is the equavalent of the PS2 power-wise if you look at the specs.

[pedrocasilva]

Yeah it is true. SNES emulation on the PSP needs to be improved upon. But you can get any game 'cept for Yoshi's Island to run fullspeed just by tweaking the settings. I got SO1 working no problem on it. But I would have to say, the PSP has brilliant GBA (gPSP) and MegaDrive/SegaCD (Picodrive) emulators made for it.

not just yoshi island mind you, I know how to tweak it and still a lot of games are simply not playable for me.

And the lack of vsync to get some extra speed in some games is just bad, I mean, tearing on-screen is horrible.

Actually the PSP is the equavalent of the PS2 power-wise if you look at the specs.

not quite, official estimated RAW polygon throughput is about half for instance, and in fact the console seems very polygon constrained, as with fillrate; compared to a PS2. It does more stuff in hardware and seems to be slightly better at texturing though (not a dificult task, the texturing part).

But... PS2 is way more powerful.

This said, not every ps2 game pushes the system where it is, including a lot of "our" favorite RPG's. So basically they could be ported to PS2, and I surely wouldn't complain.

[andwhyisit]

not just yoshi island mind you, I know how to tweak it and still a lot of games are simply not playable for me.

You did use Snes9xTYL 0.4.2 ME (note the "ME" in the version number) right? I got all games I've tried short of Yoshi's Island working on that one (with the right settings).

[pedrocasilva]

You did use Snes9xTYL 0.4.2 ME (note the "ME" in the version number) right? I got all games I've tried short of Yoshi's Island working on that one (with the right settings).

my version: Snes9xTYL0.4.2.mecm

I don't play the same games as you therefore for you it's just Yoshi Island that bombs, for me it's a few games more. Donkey Kong Country and Tetris attack, namely, feel sluggish as in 10/15 frames per second, at best.

Not to mention I never got FF6 to play music at the speed it should, even with frameskip.

[Gamesoul Master]

I agree. I've tried just about every version of SNES9xTYL (including the test versions before "test0"), and none of them could play FFVI with any factor of enjoyment. And the version I recommended earlier (the same one pedro speaks of) plays all the games I play the best. Especially my favorite games (like Donkey Kong Country, Zelda: Parallel Worlds (one of the greatest hacks I've *ever* seen of a game), Mega Man X, and a few others).

I never bothered to try Yoshi's Island with any of the emulators. I just know that the original "ME" version of SNES9xTYL 0.4.2 was in no way impressive to me (I have a "fat" PSP, in case anybody was wondering).

I'd love to see some *good* ports of PS2 games. It's definitely possible for many of them, and it'd be nice to have portable versions of some of my favorite PS2 games. If I ever saw PS2 games like Star Ocean 3 or either Arc the Lad game on the PSP, I would be forever happy.

I'm sure it'll never happen though...