Which New Tales patches are "top priority" right now for Phantasian Productions?

[Destrudo]

Hi I'm new to the forum and I was just wondering which future patches are noted as "top priority" now that most of the tales games on DS are now (more or less) patched. I loved ToI, ToP, and even the ToD2 menu patch (really helpful lol),etc.

I was thinking if maybe Cless is deciding to work on ToD2 or ToD DC as his main translation project this year and maybe ToD2 could get completed later this year or maybe there'd be a menu patch for ToD DC like Cless was planning then.

 Last I heard from the forum was that Cless estimated it'd been going well and estimated it'd done maybe in later 09 (there's no hurry as I'm waiting eagerly, but patiently ) I think, but I haven't heard any news on the project this year yet.

So does anyone know or involved w/ the project know which Tales games are taking top priority as of now? I'm not expecting any specific "release date" or anything, but I hope that they work on the PS2 projects since the DS titles are about done (currectly a patch for all of them I think).

[Bartlebycs]

In order of priority (from my understanding):

1. Tales of Phantasia

2. Tales of Destiny 2

3. Tales of Destiny Remake: Director's Cut

[Destrudo]

In order of priority (from my understanding):

1. Tales of Phantasia

2. Tales of Destiny 2

3. Tales of Destiny Remake: Director's Cut

Yeah I thought as much, but I don't get what's wrong w/ the ToP patch already out. I'd rather they moved on from that one, cause it's already good enough in my opinion, but either way if they don't that's cool to .

I think the Director's Cut patch for ToD is still on hiatus, but that's why I'm hoping @ least some news for ToD2 or some other new release from them soon, eventually lol.

[Leiw]

and hopefully some day Tales of Rebirth... but that could be a very long time from now 

[NayrEx]

Theres apparently a group out there working on rebirth for the psp version. they have no site/twitter/forum, but apparently they are progressing nicely or something like that.

[Denim]

a tales of rebirth patch would be made more promptly 'cause now Lanyn belongs to the translation group, and She? has already made a story tranlation on youtube (anyone who's willing to play the game that can be done by watching Lanyn's videos at youtube).

[throughhim413]

Translation is just one small part of a patch and a good translation doesn't guarantee a good patch. And I say that as a translator. Without capable hackers, even the best translation will look like garbage. Personally, I have yet to see any PSP hacking that really impressed me. From making the adjustments to the menu to make it look pretty to adding subtitles for voice-only lines, hacking is a lot more complicated than just replacing Japanese text with English text. While it is certainly my hope that PSP hacking has progressed and people are capable of working the necessary miracles on the system, I will, as always, withhold judgment until I see what they have to offer. That is, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Carey]

Translation is just one small part of a patch and a good translation doesn't guarantee a good patch. And I say that as a translator. Without capable hackers, even the best translation will look like garbage. Personally, I have yet to see any PSP hacking that really impressed me. From making the adjustments to the menu to make it look pretty to adding subtitles for voice-only lines, hacking is a lot more complicated than just replacing Japanese text with English text. While it is certainly my hope that PSP hacking has progressed and people are capable of working the necessary miracles on the system, I will, as always, withhold judgment until I see what they have to offer. That is, I'll believe it when I see it.

I have a lot of respect for what you did with Tales of Innocence: it is a translation patch to be reckoned with and you're easily one of my favourite translators who I believe does the Tales series complete justice! Having said that, I think your thoughts on other patches are rather cynical and degrading (for someone like me, who are learning their way in "romhacking"). Afterall, you don't know a bad patch; your Tales of Innocence/Tales of Phantasia patches had two of the best hackers/programmers in the business at their helm (Kingcom/Gemini), and let us not forget that the PSP/PS2 are slightly more difficult than, say, the NDS. Adding options such as battle subtitles or, a built in option for displaying romanizations/localizations, are elements that I would consider a dream at this point.
Not everyone has the luxury of skilled hackers/programmers, considering most of the good ones are painfully arrogant.

...The word "patch" is beginning to sound strange to me now.

[throughhim413]

Hmm... Sorry that it came off that way, though rereading it, I do sound rather condescending. This is probably going to get long... Sorry.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that there are many things that have to come together to create a successful patch. The human elements like the translator and the hacker can be controlled and certainly contribute to creating a good patch, but the tools that those people have to use are an external factor. I think it's too early in the PSP romhacking cycle to be considering creating patches because right now they can't be done "right." That's my personal belief and based on a completely subjective assessment. Many will surely disagree with me on that point and I welcome that dialogue. My main fear with PSP hacking is that at this time, there is not a quality debugger available. Without a debugger, even good hackers will struggle to do much more than create a presentable menu, so implementing the sorts of features that I mentioned earlier is, as you say, a dream. Can you still make a patch without those things? Absolutely. There are those who will argue that any translation patch is better than nothing. While I understand the sentiment, it's my personal belief that any project worth doing is worth doing right.

I truly believe that with enough time and effort, anyone can create a Tales of Innocence. We're proud of our work on it, but it's not something that should be placed on a pedestal. We have experience that helped us in the project, that's true. However, what served us more than anything else was the desire to make sure things were done right. That meant slowing down, stepping back, and often, asking for help. I'm very aware that I have been blessed to work with talented hackers, so please don't think that I don't recognize that. I have a lot of respect for those who are learning to program because it's something that I could never do. And no matter what part of this community we work in, we were all beginners once. That being said, I have, in the past, expressed mixed feelings about working on projects as practice. On one hand, working on actual projects is without a doubt the best way to learn. However, my concern is that people are too quick to say "I don't know how to fix this, but it's good enough." "I don't know what this Japanese phrase means, so I'll just take my best guess." I hate to see that. As a community, we can be so much better than that. Never hesitate to admit when you can't do something. Never hesitate to get help from those with more experience. One of the things that I love about the Tales romhacking community is that we all work so closely together. Not a day goes by where I'm not running a translation or an idea by someone else, even people who aren't involved directly in the projects I'm working on. With the goal of creating a worthwhile final product, we strive every day to do the best that we can and to seek help to fill in the gaps. We're not perfect either, obviously. Everyone has their limits. You may remember we had to scrap the wireless mode in Innocence because the necessary debugging tools didn't exist for the wifi mode. So I'm not saying everything we do has to be perfect, just that we need to be up front about where we're coming from. If you're translating for practice, that's fine, just make sure people know that your translation will have mistakes in it. If you're practicing hacking, that's fine, just make sure that you're up front about what you can and cannot do. When you recognize the deficiencies in your ability (and we all have them), you can seek those who can help you to correct them in the short term and learn how to overcome them in the long term.

Maybe that still makes me sound like an ass. I don't know. In the end, my goal is to see the whole Tales series available to players, if not officially, than at a level equal to those official localizations. So at the very least, know that even if it sounds harsh, the reason for my approach is that I want to see the Tales series be the best it can be.

[SoNick]

I don't think it makes you sound like an ass at all; I fully understand where you're coming from with that. After all, if it's not top-quality work then don't try to push it as something that it's not, you know?

I think the problem a lot of ROM hackers [and possibly translators? I don't know, I don't follow many translation groups] in general have is that they just can't SEE where they're weak; it might not occur to them to put in subtitles for voice-only lines, for instance.

[Destrudo]

and hopefully some day Tales of Rebirth... but that could be a very long time from now 

Yeah I think were all hoping for that to happen eventually 

[Destrudo]

Translation is just one small part of a patch and a good translation doesn't guarantee a good patch. And I say that as a translator. Without capable hackers, even the best translation will look like garbage. Personally, I have yet to see any PSP hacking that really impressed me. From making the adjustments to the menu to make it look pretty to adding subtitles for voice-only lines, hacking is a lot more complicated than just replacing Japanese text with English text. While it is certainly my hope that PSP hacking has progressed and people are capable of working the necessary miracles on the system, I will, as always, withhold judgment until I see what they have to offer. That is, I'll believe it when I see it.

@ throughhim413

BTW (off topic ), not to further complicate matters or make a big deal about it, but which patches have plans after the ToP patch is completed?

I'm a very patient person, and since the fact that PP's projects/patches have been near perfect so far(@ least for me anyway.. ), I'll continue to wait patiently and look forward to future releases as long as this takes even if I grow older and newer "mothership" titles get released (despite that I'd already read the half-assed translations and played through all the Tales games on PS2 as well, I'm sure these translation patches are more than helpful for us fans even if it's a menu patch like w/ ToD2 )

Anyway, I'm just saying since many ask similiar questions to this and/or attempt to demand it sooner than later, but the last thing I'd want is to do is obligate a rush-job or anything of the sort as such. W/ that being said I'm sure you've been involved or (had been involved @ least IDK, but much reps for that  ) w/ PP's project so I humbly ask, what projects have plans right after the eventual ToP patch gets released . Maybe simultaneous progress on ToD2 and ToD DC? Or a much needed break for the generous rom hackers @ PP  ?  Maybe new plans entirely? Possibly the ToD DC menu patch? Or maybe the progress on ToD2 alone? (both stats say "hiatus until ToP's completion" more-or-less, so which has project top priority over which assuming it's only one project @ a time  )

Impending releases are totally up to PP's hackers, translators, etc, and I respect that way thinking in general actually , but what I'm suggesting for is brief updates now and then, like when Cless did them in 09 announcing the ToD DC project. Simple stuff like this can make the highlight of my day (tell me those screenshots of ToD DC patched didn't look like a beacon of hope back when it wasn't announced, then call me a Tales fanboy w/o even a slight bit of hypocisy ), being (one of many)a  huge fan and since *insert off topic Namco rant * Namdai has no localization plans whatsoever for newer titles much less these older/much needed PS2 titles . This kind of thing keeps us fans posted and haves me looking forward to the releases eventually (even Cless would agree that the screen shots he makes are fun every once in awhile ).

Either way I'm just wondering what to look forward to eventually to be honest  (cause things have been looking grim for any localization plans for ToG, ToX, etc and for the English speaking fans in general for quite a while ). Seriously I don't mind whether it's ToD DC, ToD2, or even ToR if it's even possible yet (no plans for that I know, hate to bring it up again , but I'm just saying any localization/translation plans/updates make better news than hearing the official producers/developers saying "we have no plans" which obviously sucks for all us fans ).

Anyway, if ya'll want to spread the word or make some much neede updates for the projects, it'd keep Tales fans hyped seeing how things are looking quite dark for the English/Non-JP literate fans. Most of my friends (any fan for that matter) who actually play Tales games have already given up on any new localizations soon to comes, so PP can really take this advantage to post some more updates or screenshots since there's virtually nothing new regarding localizations for us here in the US or Europe .

Just suggesting, but I doubt anyone's hyped for ToG f and/or ToX unless they're literate in JP and/or delerious (enough ranting, but you get the point I'm just saying) . Not to tear down Namdai completely, but all these patches/romhackers are helping me (and most fans) more than Namdai's "track record" to be honest.

So back to my main point, why not take advantage of the opportunity, while there's no hope other than importing original un-translated copies (I don't pirate, but imports are expensive too I'll add ex:ToV 360 NTSC-U=cheap/reasonable localization, maybe $30-$40 tops for either new/good condition; ToV PS3 NTSC-J=$80-$90+ for rare imports.

Seriously the day I put hopes into Namdai's (I don't hate the company itself,I just hate the lack of localizations,surplus of bad news, the new re-releases and new content yet no translation for it even which would give one hope @ 1st then shatter your resolve just as quick as the other NTSC-J exclusive did, etc  )localizations again is only if they'd get anywhere near as serious about localizations as ya'll are for PP's patches. Haven't counted the years, but I heard that ToP's actual development didn't take as long as yalls Eng localization project (9yrs was it?), but that's a compliment as I'd rather wait for that "beacon of hope" then say it's hopeless. The fact that several yrs of hard work are being put into that patch means PP's more serious about making translations than Namdai is .

Anyway, I'm just saying cause the hackers/translators are currently doing more for us than Namdai's done lately since ToV and the spinoff sequel: ToS 2 (ToV's still fun to play, but not forever ). Once ToX doesn't have any NTSC-U localization (only my assumption, but a reasonable one) just watch whenever it gets released, somebody here is gonna ask if it possible or ask if it exists, or anything about a patch for it on this forum (it's inevitable for some newbie to register one day and decide to make a thoughtless or even selfish comment. So I think the best idea to counter that would be to update these great projects often if not now and then to end these same questions being repeated