The Decline of Nintendo?

[Kogahazan]

Now the Wii I'm concerned about, the ability to download games off old systems is a welcome addition but I personally think that feature is FAAAAR too overhyped. So what if we can download games we used to play, BIG WHOOP. If we still have the console with them on it why don't we just play it with that instead?

Guuuuuhhh... are... you... thinking... ... right?
Sorry for that, but I am a bit dumbfounded at that remark... The thing is we all don't have the console to play it on. Few people have functional NES' or SNES' and even fewer are willing to hook them up to replay those games. The point is the Wii will not only give you one convenient console to play 3 generations of games on, but it will also give you access to games you may have never had a chance to play.

But my main issue is the new controller. As many of us know the N64 has the worse controller design ever... period. It looks like you need 3 arms to play on it, not only that but the analogue is begging for you to have blisters on your hands, which I do have right now actually. The button were fine except that the L Button and the D Pad are just a pain in the ass to use, and when you think about it, the N64 controller sorta looks like someone's genitalia.

Hmm... I realize the fact that the controller was not well received. I still must say that anything takes time to get used to anything unless it's totally non-functional which the N64 controller was anything but. The thing about the blisters... I'm not going to ask how it was possible... It reminds me of that "epidemic" of sorts when people tried to rotate the control stick as fast as possible in Mario Party. People had palm injuries from it and it became so bad that Nintendo Power advertised that Nintendo was issuing free gloves for people who called them... They said don't do it if you don't want to get hurt and if you must, then use gloves. I personally haven't had any blisters from the N64 control stick, although I can sort of see how it may be remotely possible.

The GC, the controller buttons were pretty screwed up, to often I find myself pressing R instead of Z or Z instead of R. The B button is too small and A button is FAR too big for no reason what so ever, but otherwise this controller wasn't so bad conpared to the N64, but now back onto the Wii.

... That tears it. That R and Z thing is just ridiculous. How do you screw up something like that, honestly? Are you running out of things to say to bash Nintendo controllers or what? You can use index and middle fingers at the same time. If you really are screwing up something that bad, then I think you should actually be praising the GCN controller for it's easily differentiated buttons and reproving the PS2 controller for it's uniformity in button shape and placement. The point was to make each of the buttons on the controller easily differentiable both by appearance and by touch.

The reason the A button is "FAR too big" is so you couldn't possibly mistake it for the "too small" B button. The X and Y buttons are jelly bean shaped so you couldn't confuse them for anything else. Although not one of your points, this is another common complain of the GCN controller: The A is centered "akwardly" in the middle of three other buttons as to emphasize that A will be the button you use most of the time. The Z button was sort of last minute IIRC, but you couldn't screw up it with the R button. Z doesn't get pressed down as far and it has a bump sticking out of it.

Now the controller appears to be Nunchucks with a remote control for one end and a Joystick for the other, it will feel kinda a weird to use. The ability to interact with things on the screen may seem like a cool idea but its only welcoming arms for a bunch of mini-games rather than actual games, which is a huge NO. And chances are seeing actual games being released for it is rare, considering its bizzare controller. However a ton FPS games are looking forward to the Wii, I can't really stand FPS games to be honest, but others might be interested. Plus its going to have online support, another thing I really don't care for either but like I said others might like. But really the game selection might just end up as weak as the GC.

Stop. Condeming. That. Which. Is. Not. Released.
I'll give more credit to your argument once you play the Wii for yourself. If you're going to be another person who bashes what they haven't tried and say you won't try it, then I perceive that as your hatred for the system clouding your judgement and preventing you from opening up to another experience. Don't be like that or I won't see you in the same light again. Now if you don't care for what I think of you, that's none of my concern. The thing is that if you're going to keep going to this forum, I'm going to be another regular so you'll have to see me. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I still expect people to make informed decisions.

The mini-game comment has no backing. You know nothing about what's going to happen. You can predict, but you must make sure those predictions make sense. Think about it. It would be crazy to release a whole bunch of mini-game type games for any system. You know it. I know it. Has any system in history ever done it? No, it's suicide. Nintendo is crazy, but not that crazy.

The FPS comment is your opinion and I accept it. The FPS department is actually something Nintendo has been lacking in since the GCN launched. The Wii is something that will make a FPS more viable on a console with the point & shoot mechanic being comparable to the tried and true mouse and keyboard.

Online is something that Nintendo desparately needs. They haven't explored the online field because it is something that not everyone can afford. With the DS, they have established an free (for first party games. I will talk with this assumed from now on) online gaming service that is easily accessible. This solves the problem of both cost, and getting it into the general public's hands. Even with Xbox Live being the most popular online gaming service, it still comes at a price and not everyone with an Xbox has it. Nintendo is aiming to fix this by making online gaming free and making it easy for anyone with a DS to be able to use it. They will be implementing the same technology in the Wii which will (there's that word, but I am justifying my prediction) expand online gaming. Anyone with a Wii will be able to readily go online for free and even if they can't, they can buy an easily implemented USB Wi-Fi stick.

The game selection is anyone's guess, but I say the Big N is in a good position this time around. Many game companies are very excited about the applications of the Wii and are already developing games for it. Many big names are involved. Third parties are coming back, people like Hideo Kojima see much potential for a different way to play games and have already started development on such games, and Nintendo has much more surprises planned. Prove me wrong, time. Prove. Me. Wrong.

[Goshi]

I was playing the N64 for quite a while before typing so I guess that might explain the blisters. Plus Mario Party for the N64 was simply encouraging blisters (Bit I don't play it anyway).

I felt like bashing the other controllers because I was in a bad mood, and yeah most people do call me crazy for mixing up the R and Z buttons, I'm just terrible with controllers.

And you say it as if there was law in guessing what the future is like >_>

[Kogahazan]

Nothing I say is really law. That should be apparant. It is law if it obviously is.
I got into a sort of bad mood myself from reading what you said. It's contagious.

[Cless]

I can't wait for Wii.

[Cless Aileron]

Just to steer the topic away for a paragraph, I wouldn't count out the PSP.  Besides, isn't competition good?  Nintendo could use it.  I agree that UMD movies would not take off (and the fact that many studios were pulling back on productions of UMD movies proves it).  They did have a much better launch lineup when the PSP was released.  As for games, there's Lumines, which has to be checked out since it's a solid puzzle game.  While the game wasn't for everyone, Metal Gear Acid was shown to be an interesting twist on Metal Gear.  Not only that, I've downloaded a demo to Loco Roco and it's truly a unique game and could end up having a cult following like Katamari Damacy did.  I'm just pointing out there are good games on the PSP too.

I have to agree with Kogahazan that Goshi's comments were pretty baseless in regards to the controller.  Not what I'm looking for.  To be honest, I think there are much worse controllers than the Nintendo 64 controller (Dreamcast and the bulky, original Xbox controller comes to mind).  It sounds more like when my first Gamecube stopped reading the discs back in early 2003.  Worst part about it was that the warranty ended up ending around that time.  I was angry enough over it that I said, "I bought your damn Nintendo 64, despite the fact that the Playstation is a much superior system, and this is how you repay me?"  I ended up buying another Gamecube due to that since repairs without warranty ends up being like buying another console.  I expected this stuff from a Sony console but not Nintendo.

With the virtual console for the Wii.  The thing is...people like versatility.  Didn't people make a big deal that the PS2 was able to play DVD movies?  And the Gamecube got the short end of the stick because it didn't have versatility?  They like to have everything in one thing.  Still, I refer back to the Fanboy Intervention link:

4. The "Download Older Games" service will make the Revolution worth owning...

...If you already own another next-gen machine. The Nintendo-or-die fanboy can't possibly point to this as a saving grace for the system because it's not like we haven't been able to play those older games without the Revolution. Nobody forced us to throw away our old game machines and nobody stopped us from buying a replacement off ebay. Don't get me wrong, I can easily see myself spending a Saturday afternoon playing my way through the original Zelda, or Mario 3. But still, my N64 is in the basement for a reason.

And if you haven't noticed, the other consoles have been releasing "arcade classics" and other collections for a while now, and they don't exactly cause Midnight riots at game stores.

And besides, are there any good NES/SNES era games that haven't already come out for one of Nintendo's handhelds? Who among the loyal Nintendo army don't have one of those?

Just trying to bring up a point.  Feel free to argue about the quote from the Fanboy Intervention.

For the most part, I like the progress of this discussion.  Even if there's still things I don't understand about Nintendo.

I'll like to see more of the Wii at E3.

[Goshi]

The Xbox controller isn't THAT hard to use, while it is fairly cumbersome if you have small hands (Which I do have to be honest) its pretty easy to use once you get used to it. Although I admit it is kinda heavy for me. -_-;

[Kogahazan]

I find myself playing a lot of Dreamcast games lately and I got used to it. The analog stick feels unrefined compared to today's consoles' analog sticks, but it gets the job done. It, like any other console controller, is very inappropriate for fighting games which the Dreamcast had many thanks to its hardware being very close the the Naomi which many high-quality fighters came out on. I got used to it, but the directional pad sticks out so much.

Anyway, I still say it takes getting used to for anything. I've used every major consoles' controller from NES on up. I have no problem adapting, but it goes without saying that some people have an easier time than others.

[FSLink]

Now the Wii I'm concerned about, the ability to download games off old systems is a welcome addition but I personally think that feature is FAAAAR too overhyped. So what if we can download games we used to play, BIG WHOOP. If we still have the console with them on it why don't we just play it with that instead?

Yeah, it's overhyped. But...like I want to buy a copy of Earthbound on eBay for $50-70 when I can get it on the Wii for $5. Plus, my SNES is broken.
And it'd pull some old/former gamers "OMG SUPER MARIO BROS AND DUCK HUNT!!! YAY FOR NOSTALGIA!!!" I personally won't use it too much, but it's a nice feature.

[StIoachim]

The only thing I'm afraid of about downloading old games to the Wii is the controller (specially for N64 games!)... I think the games can be hard to play with it, and i don't like the idea of buying a new addon /controller just for that.

[Goshi]

The Wii can support the GameCube controller so relax a little. I'm not sure if its both the wireless of the corded ones though.

[Magicpaint]

The Wii has its classic controller that will be used for retro titles.

[StIoachim]

Heil! More money to Nintendo ( they are GREAT moneymakers... I want to be like them...)

Now I am thinking about saving money an buy Wii... It would be my first new console... Time will tell...

[Cless Aileron]

Well, I was figuring if I should have created a different topic about an editorial I found on RPGamer on how the Wii is just gimmicky but I'm thinking since it does fit this topic, I figure I should bring this topic back up.

Maybe I should hear what everyone thinks of this editorial.

http://www.rpgamer.com/ed...tor/2006/q2/052906bb.html

To sum it up, it's saying that true innovation comes from games themselves, not some controller, which is nothing more than an interface to the game.  It also say that it's not even true next-gen because it's just a repackaged Gamecube.  It was also saying that the industry is not dying like Nintendo claims it is and that the PS2 was more successful at pulling in nongamers.  Mainly, it's attacking Nintendo's so-called "innovation."

Don't get me wrong.  I think differently than from when I started this topic.  I'm just interested in seeing what you guys think after reading the editorial (I'm actually interested in what Cless has to say about the editorial).

[Cless]

So, has he actually tried it? I haven't myself, but it still sounds very interesting and more intuitive. It seemed to me that Reggie put it best at the conference.

PLAYING IS BELIEVING

Maybe it's hype. But I dunno. A lot people came out of E3 being quite impressed, even though there were some kinks here and there that still needed to be worked out.

Was the analog stick a gimmick? How about the d-pad? I know that I hated analog at first, but after getting used to it...

[Kogahazan]

Wow. That last line was just rife with RPG bias. I really beg to differ with the whole article.

Sure, they've made they're point clear that some of these games are possible now and the DS/Wii are just giving a different way to play it. It still is a bad point. They're trying to word things in a way to try to make you think that they're right.

The thing is, the DS/Wii makes games more accessable and easier to play. It makes it more intuitive and the controls make sense. Modern controllers scare away nongamers. The DS' touch screen makes a whole lot of sense with some things like Trauma Center, Phoenix Wright, or Trace Memory. Surgical incisions with an analog stick can be inaccurate. You have to take time to move the cursor to the start of your cut, possibly hold down a button, drag, then release the button. With the touch screen, you just touch and drag like you would a real cut.

Although not touch screen related but innovative nonetheless, my friend told me of a puzzle in Trace Memory. You see a stamp on the top screen and you are to use it to stamp a paper on the bottom screen. My friend was still thinking of how to use the touch screen to do it, but then looked it up and found you had to close the DS two times and the paper would be stamped. He didn't think of it because normally closing the DS would put it into sleep mode (don't chew me out if I'm wrong, he told me this, I wouldn't know because I don't have a DS).

Brain Training is something real nice out right now. The touch screen can be used to draw out numbers instead of taking time to select choices from a list. You could touch certain points of a puzzle and do various other applications.

Also with the Wii, things like tennis or baseball become much simpler and accessable to many people. If a real baseball player wanted to play a console game of baseball, with the consoles the way they are now, he would need time to be acquainted with the controls and he may not have all the time in the world. With the Wii, he could just swing away much like he does in real life. No learning curve because he's already learned it.

Also for their point on software, one word: ZELDA. Not only does it utilize the Wiimote for things such as swinging for a sword swing or pulling back for an arrow shot, you also get one butt-kick game. Two if you're really into fishing. The fishing aspect is aiming to be as natural as real fishing. Pull back and cast your line. Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 are up there too. Furthermore if they don't like this so called faux innovation, then go back to your non-innovative controller and play Super Smash Bros Brawl which will quite likely be one hell of a game.

What they said about Dreamcast did not make sense. They said defenders of the Wii point to the Dreamcast, yet they brought up points regarding the DC that go against the Wii. The main thing was graphics. I feel their statement is highly ignorant of the current generation. They say that graphics are going to matter. They said the reason Dreamcast was great was because of the graphics it offered way before the competition. Yes, the Dreamcast did give great graphics in the time of the N64 and PS1, but that was then. This is now. Graphics don't matter so much now. The reason it was a big deal back then was because there was obvious room for improvement. Now things can be rendered realistically enough. Things look nice already. How much more stitches on Mario's denim or scratches on Master Chief's armor do they need to see until they are happy? Enough is enough.

In essence, I could describe that whole article in three words, ignorant, biased, and arrogant.

[Cless]

I was typing a longwinded message but decided it wasn't worth it. So, straight to the point.

Re: Specs

The Wii is plenty powerful enough for what it is trying to accomplish. It may technically be an "overclocked GameCube"... so what?

Re: It's just a repackaged GameCube! They're deceiving everyone into rebuying the hardware! The Wii remote should've just been a new GameCube controller!! Call the waaaaaaahmbulance!!!!111

There is a lot more to Wii than the god damned controller. Besides that, releasing it as an optional accessory for GameCube is a great way for an INSTANT FAILURE.

Re: The DS touchscreen is a gimmick! Here's a few games that don't use it! Nevermind the fact that I don't bother to list games that DO use it effectively!

...like Trauma Center, Nintendogs, Brain Age, and Feel the Magic. Not to mention that Zelda Phantom Hourglass' controls with the stylus look brilliant. And what's this that I keep hearing that Metroid Prime Hunters' touchscreen controls are much more intuitive once you get the hang of them? Tilting the Metroid Prime Pinball table is much more realistic via the touchscreen than any other pinball game I've played with a standard pad. And Super Princess Peach? Touchscreen acts as another set of buttons.

YEAH MAN THE TOUCHSCREEN IS SUCH A GIMMICK. HA HA!! That's not to say that some games don't make gimmicky use of it (Castlevania DoS, New Super Mario Bros...)

Some games just use the second screen for additional data. It was strategically useful in Mario Kart DS especially when you get inked.

...don't get me started on the Wii games shown on display at E3, please.

Anyway, just because it's there doesn't mean it needs to be utilized every time. If the dev decides one of their games isn't going benefit from something, then there's no point it using it.

Such is the case with Smash Bros. Brawl, which is being designed for the retro/GameCube controller.

-----------------------

What's ironic is that the person who wrote that editorial is apparently pro-Nintendo, which makes it all the more baffling.