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Author Topic: Hold on. Someone's telling us two of the CDI Zelda games are good?  (Read 4759 times)
pedrocasilva
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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2009, 03:52:04 AM »

You're forgetting one thing...what about the hit detection?  Senel's moves actually goes through when they shouldn't!  The primitive battle system still manage to be better on the basis that their hit detection actually works!
True, Legendia fails some times, but it was never something that costed me a gameover... that I remember.

Might be because the game was already balanced taking that into account, it was easy or I was overleveled... I dunno.
Aren't you the one that's all about being "highly demanding" about this stuff (where you went on about how Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World was a serious disrespect back then)?

So yes, it still needs to be smacked for not being what a Tales game is.
I know how to separate stuff. Dawn of the New World was an insult to me and still is, regarding Namco's commitment with it, the technical result (optimization, framerate... the modeling, lack of detailed shadows, low production values) and the fact they unleashed such Tales of Recyclia: Dawn of the New Cash-in on a leading platform like that. and that I won't forgive. But I think in the midst of that the developers did their best with the limited resources they had and that the battle system is pretty good, despite some collision errors as well. You could say I don't hate the game, I "hate" Namco for being so half assed... and the game takes all the "guilt" for that, while just being the result of it.

I had fun with the game; so... I have two distinct opinions about it, really; I usually don't like to show *that* though.

Which might be not much different than what you're doing... just perhaps. (do you really hate Legendia that much? specially considering you defended it previously?)
Seems like everyone else makes a big deal about it (especially since this isn't a dungeon crawler, but a mainline RPG) that it still matters to so many (and I get the feeling Namco has also push the story too with the games).

Umm...why?  Characters are suppose to be compelling because of character development!  Heck, I'm still asking why I still like the characters from Tales of Phantasia when they're such flat characters, especially when characters from later installments give better character developments!  Why is Chloe Valens so great?  What kind of well written character development does she have that's so compelling?
I wouldn't class any Tales game as having great character development... and my favorite Tales character EVER is Arche from Tales of Phantasia. Why do I like her? erm... can't really say, I just do, I'm sure it has to do with the character design and cheerful personality. As for Chloe... I liked her ever since I saw her character design... just like I absolutely loved Tear at first sight, that or the Red Hair for the upcoming Tales of Graces. Most characters I like I also like their character design, so I'd say it's a mix.

I also think a lot of the so called "simpler characters" are more coherent than some overly complex ones that attempt to have character development but in the end often contradict themselves.

I can't really explain; nor do I think all things have to be rational.
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Craymel
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« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2009, 07:14:02 AM »

Yes, I defended Tales of Legendia previously but that was because I was a moron that didn't realize how awful it really was!  Look at it!  Has anyone actually said anything good about the battle system?  No?  My point exactly!

Considering you're lashing out at the article for saying the CD-I Zelda isn't as bad as they say it is so also proves one thing!

Opinions are a bunch of bull!  Opinions are just something to make you feel better about getting it wrong!  And considering people here are saying the guy who wrote that article saying the CD-I Zelda aren't as bad as you make it out to be is wrong with such words.  No wonder I didn't want to hear any cop out of "It's their opinion!"  Because opinions are a bunch of bull from people that can't think it through properly!  Thus, we get people defending Tales of Legendia even though it's been proven it sucks!  Also, just like how the CD-I Zelda left the biggest black eye to its series, Tales of Legendia left the biggest black eye to the Tales series!  Thus, they're on the same level for the black eye they left to their respective series!

I'm going to list some stuff off from stuff mentioned already:
1.  Both games' visual (minus cutscenes) aren't that bad.
2.  Gameplay for both are horrible, with bad controls and hit detection.
3.  Level/dungeon design are horrible.
4.  Story was horrible for both too!

And these common traits of awfulness for both sides shows how the games are an embarrassment for their respective series.  And now I'm seeing people that hated the game defend Tales of Legendia just because it shouldn't be on the same bad level as the CD-I Zelda game (and it should be, since what they have in common are that they're an embarrassment to their respective series)

Oh yeah, and the only reason fans act like they love Tales of Legendia is because they hated Tales of Symphonia (a game superior to Tales of Legendia) for being so overrated (when we all know Tales of Symphonia is a better game)!

(As for the Captain Planet comment...let's just say my friend finds it awesome despite its awfulness and somehow, Captain Planet managed to live long enough to enter pop culture history.  Yeah, I would think kids did watch it back then.  Show still stinks since it pollutes our mind with horrible writing.)

OK I'm gonna say something about the visuals of cdi of the zelda game. While advanced for their time they're not good. The art directions is poor and the maps are usually a jumbled mess because of it's art it's in no way leasing to look at. I'd prefer the simple look of alttp because it's art direction is much better and while not as advanced as the cdi games is a lot more pleasing to the eyes. You know what fine they're both god awful games and I don't want to play either of them but on the scale of awfulness legendia is a bit better then the cdi zeldas but that in no way makes it an okay game in my eyes. I'm out you may continue with your rampage.
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Kajitani-Eizan
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« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2009, 10:41:58 AM »

i'm still not sure i get the point of this topic. you're purposely acting like a dick about legendia to show how silly it is to act that way, okay. but what does that have to do with anything? it fails to make a statement about legendia, and the only statement it makes about people talking about legendia is that acting ridiculous makes you look ridiculous. i mean, i don't think there's any new ground being covered there.

i mean, you can defend legendia for what it does well or somewhat well, and you can't for what it doesn't do well. if you try to defend it where it's not good or try to claim it's indefensible where it is good, you look foolish.
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Cless Aileron
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« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2009, 10:42:15 PM »

Okay, I'll stop.  I guess I ended up that way because I thought that was the only way to realize how bad the game was (and that I'm blinding myself the same say those people with rose tinted glasses would blind themselves to how horrible the stuff they grew up on would).  And I haven't even done another playthrough of it to even know if I would think that way now.

Also, I don't know, webmaster Cless.  Why didn't it seem like you did anything to stop me or anything?  Even before and after I mentioned this being an act?  Just asking.  I was thinking I'd end up in hot water or something for doing it.  (And you were the only one not hostile over "that" article of CD-I Zelda I linked [pun not intended], considering its infamousy.  Any reason why, despite everyone saying it as it is and even after I put Tales of Legendia on the same level?)
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Cless
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« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2009, 11:04:06 PM »

I probably skimmed the topic and replies too much, missed the point of things, and found myself more interested in smacking Legendia around. I have a pretty short attention span.
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« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2009, 02:29:20 AM »

Okay, first post which probably should be some sort of introduction/ praise for your groups hard work etc etc but I just had to add something to this.

I thought Legendia was a thoroughly average, and overall disappointing game.  However, it had one feature that I would love to see implemented in a tales game again- throwing.  Admittedly, this feature was poorly implemented at times, but could be a great feature if done well.  While finishing off Vesperia slowly (hardly have any time spare for games any more) one thing that kept on frustrating me was knock down attacks.  Knock down attacks mostly end up as a break in a combo for me, with my next strike arte animation going off harmlessly, playing above the knocked down enemy.  I am aware that certain attacks and artes can hit a downed enemy, but I really liked the feature in Legendia which a knock down opened up a unique option for attack.

Well, back to work.
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Cless Aileron
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« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2009, 07:39:47 PM »

I probably skimmed the topic and replies too much, missed the point of things, and found myself more interested in smacking Legendia around. I have a pretty short attention span.

That's an idea of what got me to force Tales of Legendia on the same level as CD-I Zelda.  Figuring that everyone hates Tales of Legendia and the infamous awfulness of CD-I Zelda (since it's CD-I, most people didn't play it), they wouldn't care I put Tales of Legendia on the same level as that game.  And intentionally be a hypocrite while doing it.  And yeah, since people are so harshly critical these days, I thought that would be the case with Tales of Legendia.  I was wrong.

P.S.  I'll make sure I won't be a dick like this again.  Even as an act.  I'm sorry for it and I'm sorry, Cless.
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pedrocasilva
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« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2009, 10:57:09 PM »

I'll make sure I won't be a dick like this again. Even as an act.  I'm sorry for it and I'm sorry, Cless.
I don't think you were being a dick, you were just trying to start up a "healthy" discussion of sorts, not insult anyone who didn't agree with you and not belittling their arguments just trying to somewhat flip them to see if they had any truth to them, or if they were just paper thin.

What I mean is... I don't think you ought to say sorry for something like this; we ought to be used to your style by now, I mean, I still remember the Abyss threads.  Wink
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Kajitani-Eizan
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« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2009, 06:23:33 AM »

i didn't mean to imply that your fake dickery was a problem in any way, just that i'm not sure it was leading to new insights on the issue.
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