Childhood games.

[Datschge]

Yea, unlike the sequels the first Seiken Densetsu got the battle system right imo: you got rewarded with a power attack for not using any attack for a specific time instead punishing you with the crawling movement already while trying to reach the higher power levels. Keeping that in mind one could make the point that the series got worse with every single installment, not only starting with Legend of Mana like many people like to state.

[Hen78]

The key problem with Legend of Mana IMO is its utter lack of challenge, but as it is, I found it to be a pleasant storybook-style experience, if not much of a game (I have a similar opinion of Radiata Stories).

I found both Secret of Mana and SD3 to be enjoyable for the time that I played them (which wasn't much in the case of SD3, admittedly). I thought Final Fantasy Adventures(SD1) was complete crap, sorry for being blunt but I felt like I had wasted good money on it. I don't know, perhaps I played it just a few years too late or just simply didn't get it *shrugs*.

[randomness]
I feel compelled to point out that I can't actually stand the character Elazul despite the impression my username may have given (what can I say, I'm crap with names). As a username, it also appears to be somewhat common these days which irks slightly.
[/randomness]


Aaanyway, childhood games? lets see...

Jet Set Willy!

(you may want to ignore the title & opening sequence on that vid, mind )

[Cless]

I played SD1 sometime in 94 I think. It was pretty easy for me to get into...  it was like a Zelda game with RPG elements, and the most Zelda like of the SD series. That was still during the period where games easily left emotional impressions on me (I don't fault modern games for not doing that much anymore, just me getting old, grumpy and jaded).

Anyway, some people don't like SD2 because it has some incredibly broken things in it (such as light speed successive spell casting). I don't deny it, but they don't break the game in the slightest as far as enjoyment to me.

[Cyllya]

LoM was very much a game... It was just a Western-style RPG. >_> A cute anime-style console WRPG that's made by a Japanese company and is part of a series full of JRPGs... So it does everything wrong from what you expect. I didn't like the battle system (because I'm using an emulator?), and it was no SoM, but it was nice. Though I haven't played a lot of it yet. *never finds easy games easy*

I think Seiken Densetsu's designer(s) is the sort of person who believes that games in a series should be totally unique as opposed to upgrades of past installments. I never did agree with that....

[Cless]

Which Western RPGs are like LoM? None of the ones I've played are even remotely similar in design... it's sorta non-linear I guess (at least the order you do things), but western RPGs are a lot more than that... and they tend to do it better anyway.

[Hen78]

LoM was very much a game... It was just a Western-style RPG. >_> A cute anime-style console WRPG that's made by a Japanese company and is part of a series full of JRPGs... So it does everything wrong from what you expect.

Um, I may have misunderstood this, you're suggesting that I didn't consider it much of a game because it was a "Western-style" RPG? Can't say I share that reasoning, but I will admit that calling it "not much of a game" may have been a poor choice of words just because of a lack of challenge during combat, I'd also like to reiterate that I DO like LoM despite that criticism.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

some things that made LoM kinda crappy:
- you can't run from battles, iirc
- the fact that you heal between "battles", which leads into...
- you rarely if ever need healing during battle, and if you do, it's completely out of your control anyway unless you happened to select that crappy crouching ability, which leads into...
- horribly low difficulty (though iirc there's actually a difficulty selector), which leads into...
- lots of customization with weapons, armor, golems, etc, that goes wasted due to lack of difficulty, which leads into...
- forging and golem-making is retardedly complicated, incomprehensible, and time-consuming
- iirc, your character is mute, in the same vein as crono and serge
- magic pretty much sucks
- your secondary characters were mostly sucky

i think my first game, i used 2H Swords exclusively. i just bought some decent-material sword, like a gold sword or something, and used that. then elazul gave me a sword as part of the plot, i think the sword of fate or something, and it was WORSE than my store-bought, basic sword. wtf? not that it mattered, since i had my level 4 tech, deep swing, that basically nailed everyone on screen with a ridiculously powerful energy wave.

second game, i played as the girl and used spears. at some point, i dumped all my forging items into a spear, which then got like 200 attack power and let me wipe the floor with the rest of the game. blah...

[Hen78]

There is certainly a fair amount to dislike about LoM but I was able look past much of it, although I nearly made a point of the customization & stuff going to waste, I found that to be especially disappointing.

[Cyllya]

Um, I may have misunderstood this, you're suggesting that I didn't consider it much of a game because it was a "Western-style" RPG?

Well, like you said, shouldn't call it not much of a game for its deemphasis on combat. Combat's not the only kind of gameplay. Some games have no combat at all! (Granted, none of those are RPGs (that I know of).)

That reminds me, I forgot to mention Oregon Trail (second edition?) as a game of my youth.

Which Western RPGs are like LoM? None of the ones I've played are even remotely similar in design... it's sorta non-linear I guess (at least the order you do things), but western RPGs are a lot more than that... and they tend to do it better anyway.

Well, the way everything is neatly divided into quests reminds me of several games. And the decreased emphasis on combat reminds me of PS:T and Siege of Avalon, maybe Fable and the Dark Sun games to a lesser extent. SoA is the only WRPG I can think of with a customizable main character and a bunch of lame flunkies to accompany you, but I could've sworn there were others. There's also that way you sort of "do" the story instead of "watch" the story (hopefully you know what I'm talking about, 'cause I don't think I can explain it), which I've seen more in WRPGs than JRPGs, though LoM doesn't do it as much, I guess.

[bungiefan]

Well, like you said, shouldn't call it not much of a game for its deemphasis on combat. Combat's not the only kind of gameplay. Some games have no combat at all! (Granted, none of those are RPGs (that I know of).)

IIRC, Moon Remix RPG doesn't have combat... It's an import-only game though, so it's relatively unknown.