The artes/tech/spells/skills/killer moves topic

[Nae]

The attack names sound a lot like eachother.
Their users are both enveloped in flames while crashing on an enemy. Of course Hiou Zentsuenshou is an extension so it's not as long or as flashy as Shouou Zetsurenshou.
I'd say they are alike, but that's just me.

Hi'ou Zetsuenshou (緋凰絶炎衝)
"Scarlet Phoenix Sever Blaze Thrust"

Rid dashes across the field, leaving a flaming shockwave behind
him.

A video can been seen here.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...O0h1o&feature=related


Shou'ou Zetsuenshou (翔王絶憐衝)
"Soar King Sever Pity Rush"

Kyle does two strong slashes, dashes forward with a slash,
dashes backward with a slash, makes a big jump into the air,
making a large eruption, then come down diagonally with a final
HUGE slash.

0:56
http://www.youtube.com/wa...blmqs&feature=related

Stahn's Gouma Kaijinken (業魔灰燼剣is some what like Kyle's Shou'ou Zetsuenshou
http://www.youtube.com/wa...ND0qw&feature=related

[Kajitani-Eizan]

Houryuuzankouken -> Shouharekkousen
Dragon Glare -> Glare Cannon (Dragon Glare is official, cannon refers to the spear cannon series)

Majinmessatsuen -> Girenshoureizan -> Majinrengosatsu
Infernal Circle -> Holy Justice -> Infernal Suffering (Infernal Suffering is official)

cless already mentioned infernal suffering. the circle thing needs careful consideration, as iirc there's a demonic circle in ToS that doesn't use similar kanji. also, shouharekkousen already has an official name, Light Blast, from ToA.

[me_001]

Stahn's Gouma Kaijinken (業魔灰燼剣is some what like Kyle's Shou'ou Zetsuenshou
http://www.youtube.com/wa...ND0qw&feature=related

I see your point, but I still think they are similar. I also think you are right saying Gouma Kaijinken is more like Shou'ou Zetsuenshou than Hiou Zetsuenshou

[Kajitani-Eizan]

i'm not seeing the issue here. shouou zetsurenshou is clearly meant to be related to hiou zetsuenshou. the multiple passes in shouou is similar to the pass in hiou (which basically makes up the entire move), and the jump + diagonal slash is similar to hiou zetsuenshou's precursor, houou tenku.

also, gouma kaijinken reminds me more of a combination of maou engekiha, neppa senpuujin, and shikou bakuenjin, some of stahn's ultimate moves (at least in the original ToD). they did the same thing with eternal blade, combining cless's three ultimate moves into one.

[Nae]

Elemental Blade is really just Ryuuko Metsugazan.

[Cless]

Semi-reviving this topic because I'm looking over the katakana spell names and my head has begun to shake over couple of them, despite recalling feeling satisfied with what we had down quite a while back.

#WRITE(ptr, $B7B40)
// FEF28
//スティングレイブ<END>

This was down as Sting Rave but there's... no way that's even right. It seems to me that this should be Sting Grave or Sting Glaive. To make it sound a little more natural, change Sting to Stinging. Now the hard part... for quite awhile now, I've hated using "Grave" as a translation of グレイブ, but have begrudgingly stuck with it in other projects due to Peter Garza insisting that's what it is. But Stinging Grave just reeks even more of Engrish than that. In this instance AT LEAST, I want to use Glaive...

#WRITE(ptr, $B7CE4)
// FEAB0
//ヴォルテックヒート<END>

So you can easily invert this and get Heat Vortex, but... am I the only one who feels that the word Heat is a little... ambiguous? Flare Tornado sounds nice and toasty, but... what's Heat? Heat can be anything. I vote for something along the lines of Searing Vortex.

[Kevassa]

#WRITE(ptr, $B7B40)
// FEF28
//スティングレイブ<END>

This was down as Sting Rave but there's... no way that's even right. It seems to me that this should be String Grave or Sting Glaive. To make it sound a little more natural, change Sting to Stinging. Now the hard part... for quite awhile now, I've hated using "Grave" as a translation of グレイブ, but have begrudgingly stuck with it in other projects due to Peter Garza insisting that's what it is. But Stinging Grave just reeks even more of Engrish than that. In this instance AT LEAST, I want to use Glaive...

Change it a bit then, Glaive Sting, or Grave Needle

[gyozilla]

...Stingrave? :p

I'm definitely not against Stinging Glaive, and I know you don't like Grave (it is engrish for this spell), but I've always backed Grave as the intended meaning. Like "this will be your grave!" or grave connecting with the earth idea... So Glaive is a legit trans but, I dunno, it stands for another idea (there's no idea of death and the ground). Having said that, Stinging Grave is rather engrish though, yeah. I'm also thinking a bit in terms of continuity where ToD2 spells parallel old ones. Stone Blast -> Stone Zapper, Grave -> Sting Grave, etc. So Grave kinda connects it back.

Maybe Grave Sting. This allows you to pass it off as an adjective so it flows better. Stinging Glaive probably sounds cooler than Grave Sting though.

[Cless]

Okay. Go easy on me. Girl skills first...

Reala:

//リュウレンダン<END>
Ryurendan<END>
//流蓮弾<END>
Stream Blast<END>

//ゴホウレン<END>
Gohoren<END>
//護法蓮<END>
Lotus Wall<END>

//フウジンショウ<END>
Fujinsho<END>
//風神招<END>
Conjure Zephyr<END>

//テンショウダン<END>
Tenshodan<END>
//天翔弾<END>
Celestial Shot<END>

Harold:

//キョウエイソウ<END>
Kyoeiso<END>
//鏡影槍<END>
Phantom Thrust<END>

//エイセンケン<END>
Eisenken<END>
//影閃剣<END>
Trice Blade<END>

//カレンゲキ<END>
Karengeki<END>
//華連撃<END>
Brilliant Surge<END>
(I'm not too sure on this one... but I can't shake the idea that the first kanji is in reference to Harold herself...)

//ライガショウ<END>
Raigasho<END>
//雷牙衝<END>
Thunder Strike<END>

[KBTKaiser]

Beautiful/Gorgeous Combo for Karengeki, Cless.  Harold thinks it's stylish.

[Cless]

I figured it was something like that.

Judas:

Going over the ones without official equivalents...

//マジンメッサツエン<END>
Majin Messatsuen<END>
//魔人滅殺闇<END>
Infernal Circle<END>

//フンジンレッパショウ<END>
Funjin Reppasho<END>
//粉塵裂破衝<END>
Dust Splitter<END>
(The context for the move SEEMS to be that he strikes with such strength and precision that it shatters something as small as dust into pieces. It also seems that this could have some kind of connection to Light Spear, but that's rather hard to convey. Either way, I'm not really convinced that this is the best name for the move)

//センレツココウセン<END>
Senretsu Kokosen<END>
//千裂虚光閃<END>
Flash Storm<END>
(This is probably a stupid name. It seems to me that it's related to the Sword Rain series, but I don't think calling it Sword Rain: Something is the right course of action, especially for this game.)

//ソウレンゲキ<END>
Sorengeki<END>
//双連撃<END>
Double Blade<END>
(Feels like this isn't descriptive enough... He slashes two times with each blade, for a total of four strikes)

//ヒレンザン<END>
Hirenzan<END>
//飛連斬<END>
Soaring Talon<END>
(The limited amount of evidence doesn't seem to support Soaring as official-like for that kanji. Maybe Rising?)

Seems that skill extensions might be in other files. *sigh*

[gyozilla]

Lessee

飛連斬 -> 飛連双閃
Hirenzan -> Hirensousen
1 Swallowtail
2 Swallow Slash/Blade/Edge
3 Soaring Dance
4 Swallowtail Talon
->
I   Swallowtail Descent
II  Swallowtail Rave
III Swallowtail Song
IV Soaring Rave

Most of Judas' moves are inspired from Leon's classic moves.
飛連斬 Hirenzan = 飛燕連脚 Hienrenkyaku + maybe a little 空襲剣 Kuushuuken.
飛連 can represent 飛燕連脚, like in a recent example:

Code:

幻竜拳 + 飛燕連脚 = 飛連幻竜拳
Genryuuken + Hienrenkyaku = Hirengenryuuken
Shadow Rush + Swallow Dance = Phantom Dragon Dance

Leon in RM gets 飛燕連斬 Hienrenzan, Swallow Talon.

Whether this move implies Swallow is debatable. Soaring would be fine, except the extension is him doing a ground double slash, which isn't very related to soaring I guess, if it matters. I'm using Swallowtail for the double attack, and to distinguish from Swallow. I like 1, 3, I, III.


双連撃 -> 双連衝破
Sourengeki -> Sourenshouha
1 Dual/Double Barrage
2 Dual/Double Harmony
3 Dual Shuffle
4 Dual Cross
5 Dual Cadence  EDIT
->
I   Dual/Double Break
II  Dual/Double Assault
III Dual/Double Drive

This move is probably inspired from 虎牙破斬 Kogahazan.
Leon in RM has 双牙斬 Sougazan Fang Blade (a move from ToA). Personally, Fang Blade is not that great of a name... Sourengeki doesn't just mean consecutive attacks but also close to alternating in this case (so things like harmony, shuffle, cross). Sourenshouha has the idea of breaking through something. I like 2, 3, 5, I, II.


千裂虚光閃 -> 魔人千裂衝
Senretsukokousen -> Majinsenretsushou
1 Raining Glimmer
2 Raining Glare
3 Glimmering Rain
4 Glaring Rain
->
I   Demon Swarm
II  Demonic Swarm
III Eternal Demon
IV Haunting Demon
V  Stalking Demon

千裂 Senretsu has been translated as Rain before (it's not exclusive to the 雨 kanji) so it's fine. Storm is kind of a throwaway word that isn't very exclusive to any skill, so I tend to avoid it. 光閃 Kousen can be Glare or Glimmer (Leon in RM: 月閃光 Gessenkou Moon Glare, 臥竜閃 Garyuusen Glimmer Dragon, 崩龍斬光剣 Houryuuzankouken Dragon Glare); Glimmer should work better because of the quick flash idea (thrusts happening in a flash) and 虚 (void/empty, something happening so fast it's basically not there).

魔人千裂衝 Majinsenretsushou is inspired from 魔神千裂破 Majinsenretsuha Demonic Sword Rain.
Majinsenretsushou = Kuushuuken + Kogahazan + Souryuurengazan.
Leon in RM happens to have Souryuurengazan, Dragon Swarm.
So I suggested Demon/Demonic Swarm, to distinguish from Rain.
I thought of Eternal Demon from Guy's 烈震千衝破 Resshinsenshouha Eternal Quake. Eternal fits the raping idea well here too. Haunting and Stalking are words to describe the constant raping. I like 1, 3, and II to V.


粉塵裂破衝 -> 浄破滅焼闇
Fuujinreppashou -> Jouhamesshouen
1 Severing Ash
2 Sparking Ash
3 Chthonic Spark
4 Chthonic Break
->
I   Purifying Darkness
II  Purging Darkness
III Infernal Cleansing
IV Stygian Purge
V  Stygian Cleansing

粉塵 Fuujin is dust; the whole name seems to have an Earthly/Mortal world idea (severing earthly entanglements). I'm using Ash (ashes to ashes, dust to dust), and Chthonic (earthly). Sever and break from 裂破衝 are self-explanatory. Be careful though, 裂破衝 Reppashou stuff is used by Veigue, and Tytree in some cases, that's why I suggest using less generic words for it. Spark is an idea from the description (2 swords spark an explosion); it connects with split/break/thrust and Light Spear (Senkuureppa) you mentioned.

Jouhamesshouen has the idea of a burning cleansing/purification/purge, only it's using darkness to purge. Stygian has the idea of 闇 darkness (hell) and 焼 burning (infernal, hellish). I like 3, 4, IV. 2 and II on a lesser extent.


魔人滅殺闇 -> 義憐聖霊斬 -> 真神煉獄刹
Majinmessatsuen -> Girenshoureizan -> Majinrengokusatsu
1 Demon Ritual
2 Demon Rite
3 Demonic Sacrifice
4 Demon Offering
->
I   Holy Justice
II  Hallowed Justice
III Deliverance
IV Deliverance Blade
->
A  Purgatory Penance
B  Purgatorial Penance
C  Imprisoned Penance
D  Atoning Prison

Majinmessatsuen: I'm gonna avoid the words Infernal and Circle, since the name isn't close to anything Circle, only the animation. Infernal I'll leave it uniquely for Infernal Suffering. Instead, because of the circle animation and the darkness killing idea, I suggest words like Ritual or Offering.

Girenshoureizan: I don't suggest using Divine Justice, you lose a little Holy Spirit meaning. Hallowed is another word for holy. Deliverance is sort of the core idea (from 義憐 merciful righteousness and 聖霊 holy intervention).

Majinrengokusatsu: Core idea: True god is in purgatory or the true spirit is somewhere in between. I'm using Penance to hit on that idea, having to be killed to be in Purgatory, and Penance connects with Suffering of the other Majinrengokusatsu. I'm not that crazy about the Prison usage, but that's if you don't want to use Purgatory.

I like 1, 4, II, IV, A.

[KBTKaiser]

I won't contest much since gogs is really looking into things, but Hirenzan I need to opinionate.  The reason it's Swallow is because of that second kanji in HiENrenzan(飛燕連斬).  I think it's best to avoid Swallow in any shape or form for this one.

for Senel's Phantom Dragon Dance example, Hiren is used very loosely for Dance, given the multiple kicks.  There is also Regal's Hiryuugaku(飛龍顎), which was localized as Dragon Dance.

I'd agree to Swallowtail except for one small problem: Judas doesn't use identical blades. ^^;


Oh, and something I missed for Harold.

I dunno if Trice Blade works out, but I can't recall the attack motion right now.

EDIT: Oh, and I apologize for the Sting Rave problem.  Japanese keep the last g in Sting silent, which threw me off.

[gyozilla]

I'd agree with that. Yeah, swallowtail doesn't fit the blades. Are you leaning towards something like Soaring Dance then? Or no Dance either? I personally would like to keep Dance to hit on the Hienrenkyaku at least a little. But the argument is Dance is usually for kicks, while this is all sword.

But essentially what I was suggesting is Swallow can be implied even without the En kanji being there. My feeling with Hirenzan especially was that it's Swallow related because it's based on Leon's old Hienrenkyaku, while other Hiren moves are less likely to be related to Swallow.

The Hirengenryuuken example I used is implying Swallow even without En, because it's made from Genryuuken and Hienrenkyaku. Dance can refer to generic kicks, yes, but this Dance implies the Swallow base. In some cases, saying Hiren is like saying Hienrenkyaku; saying Dance is like saying Swallow. It's just unfortunate that Dance isn't exclusive to the Swallow set anymore, being used freely for any kick combo. It's about as generic as Storm now.

I see 飛龍顎 Hiryuugaku Dragon Dance as a bad use of Dance too; it got that name from the kicks.

But I noticed you had suggested Soaring Talon earlier too. Were you thinking of Swallow too? Relating to 飛燕連斬 Hienrenzan Swallow Talon? If we're avoiding the Swallow reference, then a bird reference like Talon isn't that good either (I don't really like them using Talon for 牙弾 gadan stuff).

[KBTKaiser]

Yes, I was referencing Swallow Talon initially with Soaring Talon.

The way I see it right now, there's no reason we can't go with opposites for Hirenzan -> Hirensousen.  Like, Soaring Edge -> Descending Cross or something...

For the gadan stuff, I think it's really mainly for kicks.  Tytree uses Hand combo Garengeki(牙連撃) as base for his kick ougi Bakuretsu Rengadan(轟裂連牙弾).  Talon is used mostly because birds attack with their feets and claw/talons, which equates to a human's arms and legs...I think?

[gyozilla]

hey wait, if we're both thinking references to swallow, what's the problem then? :p  But I guess you changed your mind. Or you want Swallow only when you see 燕.

wasn't 轟裂連牙弾 an all energy palm thrust?

so my problems with them using Talon for 牙弾...
1) Talon should've only been used for skills that REALLY relate to talons and birds like 鷹爪, 脚, 飛燕. Using it for 牙弾 is a poor connection to me.
2) Talon adds a bird aspect to the whole thing, 牙弾 isn't even close to relating to anything about birds (even 牙 to Talon is a stretch). It has no bird symbolism. It's adding a connection that wasn't really there, so in terms of continuity, this is an off translation.
3) 牙弾 stuff have enough punches to make it not just about kicks (I don't associate Talon with arms, just legs. Dance on the other hand is doable).
4) 牙弾 basically means a quick flurry combo, bouncing springing fangs (Talon actually sounds kinda slow and heavy, more like a power move than a beatdown combo). If I expand it to any move with 弾, the translation should revolve around successive attacks or a shot.
5) If Talon was exclusive to 牙弾, at least it wouldn't blend with other skills. But Talon's used for other very different skills that actually relate to bird symbolism.

mm I guess these should also be translated similarly too 双連撃, 華連撃, 牙連撃.