The artes/tech/spells/skills/killer moves topic

[gyozilla]

That I meant as an issue of using the wrong definition (invitation can lead to weird interpretations, not everyone will get the summoning/gathering idea out of invitation). If you want better ones, I'll have to use KusanagiLord's on hand (no offense to the guy):
閃空裂破 (Flash Empty Fissure Destruction. 閃空 is more as brandish or flashing air/sky or glint)
空間翔転移 (i've seen this translated as dimension/spatial soar change transfer sometimes, 転移 together should be transfer or displacement)
断空剣 (Failure Emptiness Sword. 断空 is severing/shredding air/sky sword/blade/etc)
発氣治癒功 (Departure Mind Healing Achievement. It's using chi [ie powering up] healing art/tech)
轟天 (more about the sound like thunderous sky)
不知火 (shiranui is as much a mythological term as jiraiya, will o' wisp. negative wisdom fire isn't right either literally, it would've been unknown fire/flame)
曼珠沙華 (the belladonna flower name, no need to direct trans)
Things with 陣 (can use glyph, magic circle, formation, but position isn't really right)
破魔濤符 (Destructive Demon Wave Seal. Destructive Demon leads to a wrong interpretation, should be break/defeat demon/evil, or like exorcising)
幽幻符 (Confine Vision Seal. 幽幻 is more like spiritual illusion/mirage, spectre-ish perhaps)
幻影刃 (Illusion Shadow Blade. 幻影 together is illusion)
幻影回歸 (Illusion Shadow Revolve Resolution. 回歸 is return/returning)
墜陽閃 (Crash Positive Flash. 陽 means sun here)
穿衝破 (Dig Rush Rend. Penetration or Piercing Penetration will do it)

The point I'm making even without all that is, I'm sure you know all the kanji usually come together to form a more flowing reading as a whole, instead of translating each kanji literally one by one and once in a while string along the kanji when the dictionary has an entry for that term (it'd be like "Oh! 幻影 is actually a term! I'll use illusion this time instead of illusion shadow"). It pretty much requires reading them more poetically and translate with that in mind. *shrug*

[Eien Ni Hen]

Here's the last of the skills:

流蓮弾<END>
圧縮した水流弾を撃ち放つ特技<END>
Special Skill: Shoots a blast of water (at the enemy).<END>

護法蓮<END>

前方に敵を吹き飛ばす障壁を展開、<LINE>
同時に近距離の仲間の体力を微回復させる特技<END>
Special Skill: Creates a barrier that blows away the enemies (in front)<LINE>
while (slightly) healing surrounding allies.<END>

風神招<END>

小規模な竜巻を発生させる特技<END>
Special Skill: Creates a small tornado.<END>

天翔弾<END>

跳躍後、打ち下ろしの精霊弾を発射する特技<END>
Special Skill: Fires a Spirit Blast in mid-air [lit: after jumping].<END>

岩斬滅砕陣<END>

大地に衝撃を与え、数多の岩片を吹き飛ばす奥義<END>
Secret Technique: Strikes the ground, causing a flurry of rock shards.<END>

疾空連殺剣<END>

連続攻撃で空中に打ち上げ、そして<LINE>
真空の刃で叩き落す奥義<END>
Secret Technique: A chain attack that lets you leap into<LINE>
the air and strike the enemy with a blade of wind.<END>

屠龍連撃破<END>

対空攻撃からの連続攻撃を繰り出す奥義<END>
Secret Technique: Performs a chain attack on aerial enemies.<END>

空破絶風撃<END>

神速の連続突きにより、突風が巻き起こり、<LINE>
敵を吹き飛ばす効果を持つ奥義<END>
Secret Technique: Creates a gust of wind from a chain<LINE>
of quick thrusts, blowing the enemy away.<END>

牙連蒼破刃<END>

気を纏った連続攻撃から真空波を放つ奥義。<LINE>
「奥義」は通常技と特技から連携可能<END>
Secret Technique: Creates a wave of wind through a (focused) chain attack.<LINE>
This technique is the fusion of a Normal and Special Skill.<END>

閃光衝<END>

高速の斬撃による真空波が渦を巻き、<LINE>
閃光となって敵を打ち上げる特技<END>
Special Skill: Creates a whirlwind using a high-speed slash attack,<LINE>
hitting the enemy with a bright flash.<END>

爆炎剣<END>

地面に突き立てた剣撃がヒットすると、<LINE>
目標の敵の足元から爆炎が起こる特技<END>
Special Skill: Lets you drive your sword into the ground,<LINE>
creating a burst of flame under the (targeted) enemy.<END>

空翔斬<END>

瞬時に空中へ移動、そこから剣を振り下ろす特技<END>
Special Skill: Instantly lifts you into the air for a downward strike.<END>

散葉塵<END>

舞う木の葉を切り刻む程の高速の剣を繰り出す<LINE>
特技<END>
Special Skill: Performs a sword attack so fast that it<LINE>
slices leaves.<END>

蒼破刃<END>

斬撃と、生じる真空波による飛び道具を放つ<LINE>
特技。「特技」は通常技から連携可能<END>
Special Skill: Fires projectiles using a wave of wind (from a slash attack).<LINE>
This Special Skill is a fusion of Normal Skills.<END>

I'm open to feedback on these.  I tried to make them as short as possible without omitting anything crucial, and I put stuff in parentheses that can be omitted if necessary.  Is there anything else left or is this the last of it?

[Cless]

I'm open to feedback on these.  I tried to make them as short as possible without omitting anything crucial, and I put stuff in parentheses that can be omitted if necessary.  Is there anything else left or is this the last of it?

By means of skills or everything else?

If the former, that's about it, I think... barring revisions to spell-based descriptions.

If the latter, most/all the enchant names and descriptions could use a good looking at and revising... that whole section seems to be getting neglected.

Titles section has had almost zero work put into it, but I can't estimate how difficult they'd be without context plus they may be a bit spoilery (if that matters).

[Kajitani-Eizan]

斬撃と、生じる真空波による飛び道具を放つ<LINE>
特技。「特技」は通常技から連携可能<END>
Special Skill: Fires projectiles using a wave of wind (from a slash attack).<LINE>
This Special Skill is a fusion of Normal Skills.<END>

Base Arte: Fires a pressure wave using a sword slash. "Artes" can be chained into from normal attacks.

^-- sounds a bit awkward, meh... but the main point is the second part. similarly...

気を纏った連続攻撃から真空波を放つ奥義。<LINE>
「奥義」は通常技と特技から連携可能<END>
Secret Technique: Creates a wave of wind through a (focused) chain attack.<LINE>
This technique is the fusion of a Normal and Special Skill.<END>

Arcane Arte: Fires a pressure wave using a focused combination attack. "Arcane Artes" can be chained into from both normal attacks and Base Artes.

i guess you might have to leave those out entirely due to space reasons?

[Eien Ni Hen]

斬撃と、生じる真空波による飛び道具を放つ<LINE>
特技。「特技」は通常技から連携可能<END>
Special Skill: Fires projectiles using a wave of wind (from a slash attack).<LINE>
This Special Skill is a fusion of Normal Skills.<END>

Base Arte: Fires a pressure wave using a sword slash. "Artes" can be chained into from normal attacks.

My only concern with this one is the word 飛び道具 (projectile).  I really think that word is essential to the description.  Maybe "Fires a pressurized projectile"?  And yeah, I included the last line because I had no idea how to translate it in context (obviously) and didn't know if it pertained to that particular skill or all skills.  If it's just a general comment, I would suggest removing it in both instances.

[supersonic1453]

It might just be for description for Souhajin since that's the first skill that you get, but the same rule applies to all the skills.

[MDragoon]

Ok, I know this is my first time here, but I've been watching this project for a REALLY long time, over a year and a half I think. I've played through the game three times and can give a pretty accurate description of the skills, although my japanese reading ability is kinda iffy, my writing skills are on par with some of the best.

When it comes to things like other languages, it's important to think of the syntax that other languages have. Japanese is very different from english and even chinese, so translating it is somewhat troublesome. I've read a little bit about the talk of goushourai and it's literal meaning "sturdy invitation." After obtaining a literal translation of something, you have to consider the synonyms and the like that would provide the correct effect for a translation. When you look at sturdy, it usually means (which was stated earlier) something akin to power, strength, or resiliance. Invitation, using it here means something more like "try to acquire" or gather. In American translations they usually go for no frills names to make them easy to remember, which is why "Coil" is such a good choice, because it embodies the idea of gathering strength (imagine a spring or slinky being compressed) then releasing it.

As for the Prism Flasher translation, It should be simple to do if you don't try too hard to think about the name. The name of the moves are usually derived from the lines under them, like Embrace End. I know we want an accurate translation, but somethings favor more towards a literal depiction of what the spells do. I would suggest using Prism Crasher or Prism Smasher for the spell seeing as the swords all fall to the ground and smash into peices, and although prism sword was similar, it's usually on a grander scale with a much larger sword of light. If you'd like to leave it as close to the original as possible though, why not try Prism Flashers? did anyone else mention adding an S?

As for the Souhajin description... wouldn't "Fires a wave by slashing through wind." be good?  Or better yet, since Souhajin is like a modified Fuujinken, how about "Fires a wind bullet by slashing the air."?? It invokes the idea of the projectile without using the word, unless the very word itself is beleived to be the essence of the move. As for that line at the end of souhajin, the slash animations look very similar to kyles normal attacks, maybe that's what they're refering to?

[Kajitani-Eizan]

As for the Souhajin description... wouldn't "Fires a wave by slashing through wind." be good?  Or better yet, since Souhajin is like a modified Fuujinken, how about "Fires a wind bullet by slashing the air."?? It invokes the idea of the projectile without using the word, unless the very word itself is beleived to be the essence of the move. As for that line at the end of souhajin, the slash animations look very similar to kyles normal attacks, maybe that's what they're refering to?

no, they're definitely referring to chaining. souhajin is kyle's first skill/base arte, and garen souhajin is kyle's first ougi/arcane arte. that's why they have those little tips in the description.

also, it should be noted that the descriptions don't technically refer to wind at all. they both refer to a "vacuum wave", which doesn't really make sense, so i assume they mean something like a pressure wave. the second one (garen souhajin) also doesn't mention projectiles, though that's kind of a minor point.

[MDragoon]

I guess the mentioning of the "combination of basic skills" is so you'd be able to understand you're able to use them after normal attacks. If the text is supposed to be relevent, would "combo's after normal attacks" work? It seems like it would make a fitting description? And maybe "Combo's after normal attacks and base artes" if you're going with the Abyss way of labeling the moves (that's what I've read so far).

I was thinking about mentioning the vacuum but didn't know how it would work.  I guess it's supposed to be kinda like he creates a vacuum with the sword and fires the pressure from it as a projectile. It would seem that Garen Souhajin creates a vacuum with the thrusts and then releases the pressure afterwards.

[gyozilla]

I would say Chinese and Japanese are pretty close even without kanji. Every particle of a sentence is for the most part 1:1 translatable, just reordered. English is also usually pronoun specific, while the other two can be pronoun ambiguous.

To clarify, "sturdy invitation" isn't wrong, it's just not the most appropriate definition to use. Word choice should be as important as translating correctly. It's like calling 断空剣 Failure Emptiness Sword or 穿衝破 Dig Rush Rend. Yea, "declined/turned down" for 断 can be stretched to "failure", but here it's supposed to mean "sever" as in "severing/cleaving". Same with 穿, the connotation is "pierce" instead of "dig". An editor with no knowledge of Japanese is gonna go with what the translator put down and get further away from what it means.

I dunno how this stacks up in real physics, but since it's a game it shouldn't even matter. 真空波 to me connotes vacuum, not because that's the literal translation, but because pressure/ized wave imo is a different beast... Unless Shinkuuhazan is supposed to be like some pressurized slash.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

even if it's a game, it has to make SOME sort of sense. i just can't bend my mind around how the vacuum thing would work.

so he slashes, and that creates a vacuum... okay. it's a bit farfetched, but it's a game, so fine. they did it in rurouni kenshin, too.

but then what, a projectile is fired as a result of that vacuum wave? this doesn't remotely make sense. vacuums can't travel in waves, there's no way a vacuum would be able to shoot a projectile outwards, etc. i can't envision this idea in my head.

in this case, i feel like i have a fairly good grasp at what the japanese is saying, but what it's saying doesn't make sense. the closest thing i could think of that does make sense is that the slash is creating a pressure wave that is fired at the enemy, ie, the force/energy from the slash is transmitted by the air but does not result in a net movement of air. heck, that could even be what they were thinking of when they wrote this description, but they just phailed at the physics of it, or something.

[Eien Ni Hen]

I'm not touching this one with a 10 ft (translating) pole.

Pass.

[Cless]

So uhh.. this vacuum thing. This can't be the only Tales game to use it in a spell description... right?

If that's the case, what do the official US Tales games have it down as?

[supersonic1453]

I'm pretty sure everyone is talking about how Souhajin is fired.

[gyozilla]

Does PikoPiko Hammer dropping from absolutely nowhere make any sort of sense (the crazy "hammer space")? These moves have always been a little sci-fi mixed with real world mechanics, right?

And I mean, there doesn't seem to be qualms about 月閃光 and 閃光衝 even though they also use 真空波? The translations sort of glossed over that but *shrug*.

月閃光
斬撃の真空波が三日月の軌跡を描く特技
Special Skill: Slashes in the shape of a cresent moon.

閃光衝
高速の斬撃による真空波が渦を巻き、閃光となって敵を打ち上げる特技
Special Skill: Creates a whirlwind using a high-speed slash attack, hitting the enemy with a bright flash.

If you look at these 2 moves, especially Senkoushou, the context is that the slash is moving so fast (hence all the "flash" motif) that it creates a vacuum in its wake, a vacuum wake, if you like. So ok, this might be the part you've accepted (kenshin's amakakeru). But if you say 真空波 means pressure wave, then the context isn't really the same. It would then mean the wave is transfering/displacing particles/energy/etc as opposed to a vacuum trail that's caused by something moving at high-speed. I didn't take the time to say it well but again, pressure and vacuum imo are different beasts, and the context in all these instances suggests the latter to me.

And this is minor but I guess it's more whirlpool/vortex than whirlwind for Senkoushou (invoking the image of a vortex).

"Artes" can be chained into from normal attacks.
"Arcane Artes" can be chained into from both normal attacks and Base Artes.

You might not need "into", "into from" together might sound weird or confusing.

[Kajitani-Eizan]

i agree that it means vacuum, and in the case of gessenkou and senkoushou it actually makes "sense" in the same way as amakakeru makes sense. it's just that souhajin is so out there that i feel it might raise eyebrows if you try to say something like "creates a vacuum from a sword slash to shoot a projectile", because it tries to provide a physical explanation, but fails horribly. i can suspend disbelief if you just say "it's magic" or "it's chi" or something like that, but if you try to make a physical-sounding explanation, it has to make some sort of sense.

i'm thinking if we want to both be accurate and have the description make sense, we're going to need to be really, really creative :/